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Umfrage

Should Eomer gain abilities to make him a better mass slayer, and Merry a couple of new abilities to let him mount and trample?

Yes to both
12 (28.6%)
No to both
13 (31%)
Yes to Eomer
9 (21.4%)
Yes to Merry
8 (19%)

Stimmen insgesamt: 37

Autor Thema: Poll: New Abilities for Eomer and a pony mount for Merry  (Gelesen 3334 mal)

Elite KryPtik

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4th and final poll for today :)

So I think everyone can agree that Eomer as a mass slayer is really pathetic, the weakest one in the game. I think his abilities need to be reworked, especially Memorial, which is truly terrible for a 4th ability. I'll put my ability suggestions in this post, if you vote yes please post your own suggestions to improve Eomer's abilities as a mass slayer.

Eomer Abilities
Level 1: Mount
No description needed
Level 1: Spear Throw.
Effect: The same as the current ability, but as Eomer gains higher levels the spear knocks back enemies in a bigger area and does more damage. At level 4, it affects 50% more area and deals 50% more damage, then again at level 7, and then again at level 10.
Level 4: Fury of Guthwine
Effect: Eomer damages and knocks back all enemies in a fair distance front of him.
Level 7: Charge of Firefoot
Effect: Eomer will gain +100% movement speed and cannot be slowed while trampling for 30 seconds.
Level 10: Same ability as the current level 10, including name and description, except 2 lines of horsemen charge, damaging and knocking back enemies, with 10 seconds in between them. This would also deal much more damage than it currently does.

As for Merry, I think rather than his current ability to just run 20% faster, he should be able to mount his pony, Stybba, so that he can keep up with the cavalry of Rohan late game. While mounted on his pony, he cannot trample enemies by default, but instead of Dagger of the Noldor, he would get a different level 10 ability to allow him to temporarily trample for 20 seconds. Also, while mounted he would not be able to use conceal to go invisible to the enemy.
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

Tienety

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Re: Poll: New Abilities for Eomer and a pony mount for Merry
« Antwort #1 am: 6. Aug 2015, 08:52 »
I agree with pony for Merry. This would be very helpful for him.
Maybe he can have on foot his Dagger of the Noldor and on pony new trample ability.

I like Eomer abilities in mod except Leonidas's spear:  [uglybunti]
Leonidas in 300

Eomer can kill two mumakils with the his spear in movie. This spear should be effective against a monster like in movie:
Eomer's spear
i like more Eomer's spear from vanilla. 8-|

Eomer has a very useful ability against units on level 10 but I think it's too late.
Maybe just add this ability in weaker version on level 3 and this ability can get more riders on level 5, 7 and 10.
« Letzte Änderung: 6. Aug 2015, 13:47 von Tienety »

LordDainIronfoot

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Re: Poll: New Abilities for Eomer and a pony mount for Merry
« Antwort #2 am: 6. Aug 2015, 09:00 »
Well if we give Merry a Pony shouldn't this mean that we have to give a Pony to Bilbo too in the same manner!? Do not get me wrong I like the idea and am all for it! :)
I like that Eomers Spear should do a little bit more DMG with highest LV he gets but still shouldnt it be stronger agaisnt Heroes since he killed the Mumakil riders with one Shot!? :)
"I will not stand down before any Elf,not least this Faithless Woodland Sprite,he wishesh nothing but ill upon my people...To Battle,to Battle Sons of Durin!!!..."

"You,think I give a dead dog about your threats you Pointy Ear Princess...Hear now lads,we are on...Let's give those bastards a good Hammering!!!..."

Adrigabbro

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Re: Poll: New Abilities for Eomer and a pony mount for Merry
« Antwort #3 am: 6. Aug 2015, 09:21 »
I like Memorial. Actually I like Eomer's skillset. But it's true his spear ability could use some buff, like either more damage or a bigger area of effect.

As for Merry, I'd rather give him the ability to ride with Eowyn, if possible. :)


"That still only counts as one!"

LordDainIronfoot

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Re: Poll: New Abilities for Eomer and a pony mount for Merry
« Antwort #4 am: 6. Aug 2015, 09:41 »
Riding with Eowin would mean that you will lose your Scout and lose one Hero over all cuz you combine them! Adn where you sent Merryy or Eowin the other wil lbe there even if you ant it elsewhere! :)
"I will not stand down before any Elf,not least this Faithless Woodland Sprite,he wishesh nothing but ill upon my people...To Battle,to Battle Sons of Durin!!!..."

"You,think I give a dead dog about your threats you Pointy Ear Princess...Hear now lads,we are on...Let's give those bastards a good Hammering!!!..."

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Re: Poll: New Abilities for Eomer and a pony mount for Merry
« Antwort #5 am: 6. Aug 2015, 09:45 »
Who needs a scout when the game has reached 25 minutes?
Of course there would be some kind of interaction, otherwise it would be pointless you are right.  ;)


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LordDainIronfoot

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Re: Poll: New Abilities for Eomer and a pony mount for Merry
« Antwort #6 am: 6. Aug 2015, 10:00 »
Do not get me worng I like you idea about Eowin  it would be cool and that way it will mean the Merry will always have someone stronger to protect him! :) But still I think the Pony will be better! :)
"I will not stand down before any Elf,not least this Faithless Woodland Sprite,he wishesh nothing but ill upon my people...To Battle,to Battle Sons of Durin!!!..."

"You,think I give a dead dog about your threats you Pointy Ear Princess...Hear now lads,we are on...Let's give those bastards a good Hammering!!!..."

Elite KryPtik

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Re: Poll: New Abilities for Eomer and a pony mount for Merry
« Antwort #7 am: 6. Aug 2015, 17:14 »
Well yes, his spear should technically be more damaging to single units, because of its portrayal in the movie. But you have to look at it from a gameplay perspective, Eowyn already has a hero/monster killer spear throw, and Eomer's role as stated by the team is to be the mass slayer of Rohan. Which is another reason why memorial doesn't fit, as that's a support ability, and a really weak one for a level 7 skill.

As for the pony mount for Merry, I suggested that because Rohan is a cavalry faction. Technically all the hobbits have had pony mounts, except maybe Frodo. From a practical gameplay perspective however, Bilbo wouldn't need a mount because the Dwarves are 95% infantry, same thing with Pippin and Gondor except for the few people who use Gondor Knights, and Knights of Dol Amroth.
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

Tienety

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Re: Poll: New Abilities for Eomer and a pony mount for Merry
« Antwort #8 am: 6. Aug 2015, 18:22 »
Well yes, his spear should technically be more damaging to single units, because of its portrayal in the movie. But you have to look at it from a gameplay perspective, Eowyn already has a hero/monster killer spear throw, and Eomer's role as stated by the team is to be the mass slayer of Rohan. Which is another reason why memorial doesn't fit, as that's a support ability, and a really weak one for a level 7 skill.
But It is this role "mass slayer" a fit for him?
Some of his abilites from book or movie are not fit for this role like memorial or spear from movie.
Eomer's spear has more damage against monster and Eowyn's spear has more damage against heroes in old version and vanilla. I like more this system and this is more fit for Eomer and Eowyn.
Maybe he can have his old role from vanilla and old version: moster killer with support abilities.

Maybe Erkenbrand can be new mass slayer for Rohan. He was tall, strong and reminding of Helm Hammerhand. So, He probably kill many orcs and uruk-hai in Battle of Helm's Deep. I think that this role is fit for him.
« Letzte Änderung: 6. Aug 2015, 19:40 von Tienety »

TiberiusOgden

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Re: Poll: New Abilities for Eomer and a pony mount for Merry
« Antwort #9 am: 6. Aug 2015, 19:34 »
But this is this role "mass slayer" a fit for him?
I really don't know. It feels to me like an artificial implementation. Which abilities Eomer has as a mass slayer? Except
Zitat
Leonidas spear
...

Elite KryPtik

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Re: Poll: New Abilities for Eomer and a pony mount for Merry
« Antwort #10 am: 6. Aug 2015, 22:17 »
I agree with you guys, but I didn't make the mod. I'm just going based off the roles the team wanted to give each hero.
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

TiberiusOgden

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Re: Poll: New Abilities for Eomer and a pony mount for Merry
« Antwort #11 am: 6. Aug 2015, 22:30 »
I'm just going based off the roles the team wanted to give each hero.
We know, but it does not mean, that change is impossible. :P xD

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Re: Poll: New Abilities for Eomer and a pony mount for Merry
« Antwort #12 am: 6. Aug 2015, 22:47 »
Well Rohan needs a mass slayer hero, who will do it if not Eomer? He is the only one suited to the role based on his character, unless my other poll effects change and Erkenbrand is made into a full hero. Erkenbrand would probably be the best suited to being a mass slayer, if he were a full hero.
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

TiberiusOgden

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Re: Poll: New Abilities for Eomer and a pony mount for Merry
« Antwort #13 am: 6. Aug 2015, 22:58 »
Erkenbrand can be new mass slayer for Rohan. He was tall, strong and reminding of Helm Hammerhand. So, He probably kill many orcs and uruk-hai in Battle of Helm's Deep. I think that this role is fit for him.
I think that Tienety described it perfectly. ;)

Elite KryPtik

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Re: Poll: New Abilities for Eomer and a pony mount for Merry
« Antwort #14 am: 6. Aug 2015, 23:18 »
I agree wholeheartedly. Any thoughts, Edain developers? :D
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

TiberiusOgden

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Re: Poll: New Abilities for Eomer and a pony mount for Merry
« Antwort #15 am: 6. Aug 2015, 23:22 »
I suppose that firstly Tienety will describe some new abilities for him - in order to be regular hero. xD

Elite KryPtik

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Re: Poll: New Abilities for Eomer and a pony mount for Merry
« Antwort #16 am: 7. Aug 2015, 00:38 »
I gave a a full roster of new abilities for him too, in the mass slayer role in my poll for the new hero system idea.
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

LordDainIronfoot

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Re: Poll: New Abilities for Eomer and a pony mount for Merry
« Antwort #17 am: 7. Aug 2015, 08:13 »
I agree that Erkebrand can be new mass slayer while Eomer can be like an Unit Supporter with Hero Killing Aspect to represent his outlaw leading his troop ans killing the Mumakil Rider!But as it comes to new Abilities I will leave that to you guys I am not so good in making them and especially not Dwarven ones :D
"I will not stand down before any Elf,not least this Faithless Woodland Sprite,he wishesh nothing but ill upon my people...To Battle,to Battle Sons of Durin!!!..."

"You,think I give a dead dog about your threats you Pointy Ear Princess...Hear now lads,we are on...Let's give those bastards a good Hammering!!!..."

Tienety

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Re: Poll: New Abilities for Eomer and a pony mount for Merry
« Antwort #18 am: 8. Aug 2015, 10:06 »
I suppose that firstly Tienety will describe some new abilities for him - in order to be regular hero. xD
Yes, here they are:  8-)

Erkenbrand


Erkenbrand will be available in Gathering Bell as standard hero with mass slayer role for Rohan(price: 1600).

Erkenbrand abilities:

Level 1: Mount

Level 1: Red shield
Erkenbrand uses his shield with enormous strength against his enemies.
Selected target and all enemies nearby will receive medium damage and be knocked back.

Level 3: Black horn
Erkenbrand uses his horn to give courage to all nearby friendly units.
Erkenbrand and nearby friendly units get +15% move speed and cannot be slowed down while trampling for 15 seconds.

Level 5: Strength of Helm Hammerhand
Erkenbrand's strength is reminiscent of Helm Hammerhand, one of the legendary heroes from Rohan's history. He uses his immense strength in combat.
He gains +50% damage, +20% attack speed and area-effect damage for 30 seconds.

Level 7: Reinforcements from Westfold
Erkenbrand gathers reinforcements from Westfold.

This ability unlocks Erkenbrand's second palantir. He can choose which units to summon to the battlefield.

Level 7: Swordsman of the Westfold
Erkenbrand summons three battalions of Swordsman of the Westfold to the battlefield for a short time.

Level 8: Spearmen of Westfold
Erkenbrand summons three battalions of Spearmen of the Westfold to the battlefield for a short time.

Level 10: Riders of Westfold
Erkenbrand summons three battalions of Riders of the Westfold to the battlefield for a short time.

You can have only one type of Westfall units in same time.

What do you think?  8-)
« Letzte Änderung: 8. Aug 2015, 20:41 von Tienety »

Adrigabbro

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Re: Poll: New Abilities for Eomer and a pony mount for Merry
« Antwort #19 am: 8. Aug 2015, 10:54 »
If you want to make him a mass slayer, how about giving him an area of effect attack, for instance with your spell "Strength of Helm Hammerland" ?
Otherwise nice ideas. :)


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Gandalf The Gray

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Re: Poll: New Abilities for Eomer and a pony mount for Merry
« Antwort #20 am: 8. Aug 2015, 11:15 »
i played with eomer of rohan and i will say i agree with  Elite KryPtik eomers is a bad mass slayer for his role

Tienety

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Re: Poll: New Abilities for Eomer and a pony mount for Merry
« Antwort #21 am: 8. Aug 2015, 12:34 »
If you want to make him a mass slayer, how about giving him an area of effect attack, for instance with your spell "Strength of Helm Hammerland" ?
Yes, this is a good idea for him. ;)

Elite KryPtik

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Re: Poll: New Abilities for Eomer and a pony mount for Merry
« Antwort #22 am: 8. Aug 2015, 19:58 »
I took Tinety's ability ideas and improved the English, much as I do for the team on a regular basis :P

Many of these ideas are very similar to my ideas for him posted in the new hero system thread, we think similarly Tinety :)

Level 1: Mount

Level 1: Red shield
Erkenbrand uses his shield with enormous strength against his enemies.
Selected target and all enemies nearby will receive medium damage and be knocked back.

Level 3: Black horn
Erkenbrand uses his horn to give courage to all nearby friendly units.
Erkenbrand and nearby friendly units get +15% move speed and cannot be slowed down while trampling for 15 seconds.

Level 5: Strength of Helm Hammerhand
Erkenbrand's strength is reminiscent of Helm Hammerhand, one of the legendary heroes from Rohan's history. He uses his immense strength in combat.
He gains +50% damage, +20% attack speed and area-effect damage for 30 seconds.

Level 7: Reinforcements from Westfold
Erkenbrand gathers reinforcements from Westfold.

This ability unlocks Erkenbrand's second palantir. He can choose which units to summon to the battlefield.

Level 7: Swordsman of the Westfold
Erkenbrand summons three battalions of Swordsman of the Westfold to the battlefield for a short time.

Level 8: Spearmen of Westfold
Erkenbrand summons three battalions of Spearmen of the Westfold to the battlefield for a short time.
Level 10: Riders of Westfold
Erkenbrand summons three battalions of Riders of the Westfold to the battlefield for a short time.
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

Tienety

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Re: Poll: New Abilities for Eomer and a pony mount for Merry
« Antwort #23 am: 8. Aug 2015, 20:30 »
I took Tinety's ability ideas and improved the English, much as I do for the team on a regular basis :P

Many of these ideas are very similar to my ideas for him posted in the new hero system thread, we think similarly Tinety :)
Thanks!  8-)
Yes, I know about your abilities. You are created abilities for tank and unit Interruptor roles. I used his characteristics from the books for mass mass slayer role. xD
« Letzte Änderung: 8. Aug 2015, 20:34 von Tienety »

LordDainIronfoot

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Re: Poll: New Abilities for Eomer and a pony mount for Merry
« Antwort #24 am: 9. Aug 2015, 07:28 »
I like all thos Abilities from Tienity!I think they will make Erkebrand a good regualr Hero!I alwasy loved him as a character and Marshal from Rohan and now he will really be good Leader and hero killier to some degree!The Abilities are fine I like them a lot! :) I hopethat the Team will approve them and use them! :)
"I will not stand down before any Elf,not least this Faithless Woodland Sprite,he wishesh nothing but ill upon my people...To Battle,to Battle Sons of Durin!!!..."

"You,think I give a dead dog about your threats you Pointy Ear Princess...Hear now lads,we are on...Let's give those bastards a good Hammering!!!..."

TiberiusOgden

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Re: Poll: New Abilities for Eomer and a pony mount for Merry
« Antwort #25 am: 9. Aug 2015, 09:46 »
I took Tinety's ability ideas and improved the English, much as I do for the team on a regular basis :P
Really professional service. :D
Tienety looks like professional concept maker. xD

Gandalf The Gray

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Re: Poll: New Abilities for Eomer and a pony mount for Merry
« Antwort #26 am: 9. Aug 2015, 15:22 »
I like all thos Abilities from Tienity!I think they will make Erkebrand a good regualr Hero!I alwasy loved him as a character and Marshal from Rohan and now he will really be good Leader and hero killier to some degree!The Abilities are fine I like them a lot! :) I hopethat the Team will approve them and use them! :)
i think Éowyn is an awesome hero killer and i dont think rohan needs another hero killer

Tienety

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Re: Poll: New Abilities for Eomer and a pony mount for Merry
« Antwort #27 am: 10. Aug 2015, 08:14 »
I like all thos Abilities from Tienity!I think they will make Erkebrand a good regualr Hero!I alwasy loved him as a character and Marshal from Rohan and now he will really be good Leader and hero killier to some degree!The Abilities are fine I like them a lot! :) I hopethat the Team will approve them and use them! :)
i think Éowyn is an awesome hero killer and i dont think rohan needs another hero killer
Yes, you're right. Dain made a mistake. Erkenbrand will be mass slayer and Eomer gets his old role: Moster killer with support abilities. :P
« Letzte Änderung: 10. Aug 2015, 08:19 von Tienety »

Ealendril

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Re: Poll: New Abilities for Eomer and a pony mount for Merry
« Antwort #28 am: 10. Aug 2015, 12:20 »
Zitat
Yes, you're right. Dain made a mistake. Erkenbrand will be mass slayer and Eomer gets his old role: Moster killer with support abilities. :P
Thats in fact the mainly problem and the reason, why Eomer gets a new role in Edain 4.0. Rohan has already really good supporters: Gamling, Theoden and Theodred. Additionally Rohan has a Herocounter and Monsterslayer: Eowyn. Then we have the scout Merry and the tank Hama.
Eomer has a great massslayer ability on Level 10, a passive pillage ability to gain ressources by slaughter groups of enemies and his spear at earlier stages.
If we transform Eomer up to a herocounter and supporter, Eomer will compete with every other hero in Rohan.
Currently there is no need to define Erkenbrand as a full massslayer hero for Rohan.

Sorry, but i have to reject this proposal.


PS: If we look up to the poll:
No to both -> (44%)
« Letzte Änderung: 10. Aug 2015, 12:53 von Ealendril »

Tienety

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Re: Poll: New Abilities for Eomer and a pony mount for Merry
« Antwort #29 am: 10. Aug 2015, 12:35 »
Zitat
Yes, you're right. Dain made a mistake. Erkenbrand will be mass slayer and Eomer gets his old role: Moster killer with support abilities. :P
And this is the primarly problem and the reason, why Eomer gets a new role in Edain 4.0. Rohan has already really good supporters: Gamling, Theoden and Theodred. Additionally Rohan has a Herocounter and Monsterslayer: Eowyn. Then we have the scout Merry and the tank Hama.
Eomer has a great massslayer ability on Level 10, a passive pillage ability to gain ressources by slaughter groups of enemies and his spear at earlier stages.
If we transform Eomer up to a herocounter and supporter, Eomer will compete with every other hero in Rohan.
Currently there is no need to define Erkenbrand as a full massslayer hero for Rohan.

Sorry, but i have to reject this proposal.
Ok, I understand, maybe just Erkenbrand can have 1-2 new abilities as captain.
but Eomer is good massslayer only on level 10. Maybe he can have this ability earlier on level 5 but a little weaker. Also, this ability can get more damage on level 7 and 10.
« Letzte Änderung: 10. Aug 2015, 12:39 von Tienety »

Elite KryPtik

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Re: Poll: New Abilities for Eomer and a pony mount for Merry
« Antwort #30 am: 10. Aug 2015, 17:03 »
Zitat
Yes, you're right. Dain made a mistake. Erkenbrand will be mass slayer and Eomer gets his old role: Moster killer with support abilities. :P
Thats in fact the mainly problem and the reason, why Eomer gets a new role in Edain 4.0. Rohan has already really good supporters: Gamling, Theoden and Theodred. Additionally Rohan has a Herocounter and Monsterslayer: Eowyn. Then we have the scout Merry and the tank Hama.
Eomer has a great massslayer ability on Level 10, a passive pillage ability to gain ressources by slaughter groups of enemies and his spear at earlier stages.
If we transform Eomer up to a herocounter and supporter, Eomer will compete with every other hero in Rohan.
Currently there is no need to define Erkenbrand as a full massslayer hero for Rohan.

Sorry, but i have to reject this proposal.


PS: If we look up to the poll:
No to both -> (44%)

I'm going to restate something that I think has been forgotten in the wake of people saying Erkenbrand should be made a full hero, which I went along with due to popular demand and is NOT the original point of this poll. The point of this poll was to redo or strengthen Eomer's abilities AS the mass slayer of Rohan. I just think that as a mass slayer his abilities need to be changed or buffed, his level 10 ability does practically no damage to upgraded armies and takes nearly as long as Gandalfs Word of Power to recharge, how is that fair? Not to mention the tiny area of effect. Additionally, Murin gets an identical ability on level 5, which does equivalent damage to enemies.

Eomer's spear throw only kills incredibly weak enemies like orcs, any upgraded units will barely take damage from it. Both his Outlaw Leadership and Memorial abilities are support skills, and memorial is really freaking bad for a level 7 ability, +20% damage for allies and -20% attack damage for enemies? That's it? Most leaderships at level 1 are better than that and move with the hero, not fixed on a point of ground like Memorial. These 2 abilities don't suit his role as a mass slayer. My original idea was to just buff his mass slayer abilities and replace Memorial with something more suiting, which is still the main point of this poll. I think Eomer suits the Mass Slayer roll well enough from the portrayal of his character, but his abilities are just so weak that it doesn't even come close to other mass slayer heroes late game.

Additionally, if you combine the "Yes to Both" and "Yes to Eomer" votes, you get 42.3% of the entire vote, which is not far below the no to both vote, looks to me like a practically even split :P
Not trying to argue with the team lead here but that is the original idea for this poll, thanks for reading :)

EDIT: The Yes to Both and Yes to Eomer votes now outernumber the no to both votes.
« Letzte Änderung: 15. Aug 2015, 17:10 von Elite KryPtik »
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!