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Autor Thema: Fanfiction fights!  (Gelesen 5747 mal)

Offline Fredius

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Re: Fanfiction fights!
« Antwort #15 am: 28. Okt 2015, 18:48 »
If he can get Legolas with an axe (thrown like in the movies), Legolas is now wounded and Gimli can run up and finish him off: dead elf!

Yes but we're talking about close combat right xD? If Gimli can throw an axe then Legolas should be able to fire at least 1 arrow, just to make it fair. And as we have seen Legolas never misses a shot :D.

Now, on the matter of close combat I'd give it to legolas. He has already shown that he can fight heavier and bulkier orcs with the agility he has. Furthermore; Legolas won the drinking battle and killed more enemies in the battle of the Pelennor Fields. And he even killed a Mumakil all by himself (THOUGH IT STILL ONLY COUNTS AS ONE :-|)!
« Letzte Änderung: 28. Okt 2015, 19:22 von Fredius »

Offline Gandalf The Gray

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Re: Fanfiction fights!
« Antwort #16 am: 28. Okt 2015, 19:17 »
well i think gimli and legolas chances winning and a mumaki is not that sharp and fast and legolas had no problem climbing on his head and shoot it head gimli is faster 

Offline Fredius

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Re: Fanfiction fights!
« Antwort #17 am: 28. Okt 2015, 19:34 »
Mumakil are faster than humans, just like elephants are faster than humans too. Dwarves are even slower then humans, so I really have to give the advantage to Legolas on this. If by faster you meant agility, then yes Gimli is probably more agile than a Mumak, since that beast is veryy big. And ofcourse Gimli is much smarter then a Mumak, but I don't think he is smarter then Legolas.

Offline WarOfTheRingVeteran

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Re: Fanfiction fights!
« Antwort #18 am: 28. Okt 2015, 20:28 »

Offline Fredius

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Re: Fanfiction fights!
« Antwort #19 am: 28. Okt 2015, 20:32 »
Hahaha I loled :D. Legolas Swagleaf

Offline LordDainIronfoot

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Re: Fanfiction fights!
« Antwort #20 am: 29. Okt 2015, 10:47 »
Hahaha!!That last oe killed me of laugh :D :D

Well on topic I do belive Legolas will win against Gimli,as much  as I wish he couldn't  [uglybunti]
"I will not stand down before any Elf,not least this Faithless Woodland Sprite,he wishesh nothing but ill upon my people...To Battle,to Battle Sons of Durin!!!..."

"You,think I give a dead dog about your threats you Pointy Ear Princess...Hear now lads,we are on...Let's give those bastards a good Hammering!!!..."

Offline Elite KryPtik

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Re: Fanfiction fights!
« Antwort #21 am: 8. Nov 2015, 12:13 »
There are a lot of things to take into account here.

For Legolas: His strengths would obviously include that he is thousands of years old, and has a lot of training. He is extremely fast, accurate, and agile, and could probably swing 3 times for every single swing of Gimli. However, there are also weaknesses to take into account. As the extended edition of battle of the 5 armies demonstrated, the elves are arrogant, cocky even. I would highly expect that Legolas would only be used to fighting lowly creatures like orcs, not a true threat like Gimli and would underestimate him. Also, dwarven armor is Legendary, they are without contest the BEST armor smiths in Middle-Earth, so I have serious doubts that any arrows fired by Legolas could even pierce Gimli's armor, it would have to come down to close combat, which is just where the dwarf wants to be. Gimli also isn't just going to stand there and take an arrow to the face, so I discount that possibility.

As for Gimli, the only thing that needs to be said separately from above is that he is obviously the more durable and stubborn. Legolas winning the drinking game was nonsense, alcohol effects Elves, as evidenced by The Hobbit, both book and film, so I completely discount that argument. It was just a funny moment in the film, not canon. Gimli's sheer endurance, combined with his armor, means that he could probably take many hits from Legolas before even being slowed down, whereas a single hit from his battleaxe or even his thrown axe would severely injure Legolas.

Finally, a shared advantage is that both are heroes, and therefore have what I call "Heroic Luck". Basically, attacks that would be a sure-fire hit against an orc somehow seem to miss them, or glance off. So Legolas could be presumed to be half as likely to hit with his bow, same goes for Gimli with throwing axes.

Ultimately, I think that Gimli simply has more advantages. Better armor and endurance, a more dangerous close combat melee weapon, and finally he would be more likely to actually WANT to kill the Elf, and wouldn't underestimate him. I give this match to Gimli.

Here is my proposal: Gandalf the White versus the Witch King. Not the ridiculous nonsense in the film where his staff just blows up, Gandalf is a freaking Maiar, a lesser GOD, on par with Sauron himself. The Witch King is just an old man who knows some magic, and his greatest power was that of fear, which obviously does not affect Gandalf. Take it away :)
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

Offline Fredius

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Re: Fanfiction fights!
« Antwort #22 am: 8. Nov 2015, 12:40 »
If we are talking about the armor Gimli wears in the Lotr movies, then he surely can be pierced by any arrow Legolas fires. If he wears heavy armor, like for example the Erebor armor shown in the Hobbit movies, then it's a different story, but Legolas accuracy with the bow gives him an easy opportunity to shoot Gimli in his face, even a small warmask won't stop an arrow to the face. Elves are praised to be one of the best smiths themselves, so if Gimli can wear heavy armor, then Legolas should too. However, just because you wear heavy Armor doesn't mean that you become invincible. Heavy Armor will slow Gimli down, combined with a heavy two handed axe it makes things only worse. Legolas with his agility can easily evade all those slow attacks, and it's not like heavy armor has no weaknesses.

Elves might be arrogant and cocky, but the same can be said about Dwarves :D. I would rather say that Gimli would underestimate Legolas, because of his stuborness and pride for the Dwarven Race. The Alcohol part was just a joke, I didn't use it as a real argument.

Well you just answered it yourself, Gandalf is a semi-God, WK is just a regular wraith :P. If Gandalf uses his full power then ofcourse he wins.

Offline Elite KryPtik

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Re: Fanfiction fights!
« Antwort #23 am: 8. Nov 2015, 13:15 »
The Elves of Mirkwood are not known for their armor, quite the contrary, they are only known for their archery. The Elves here mostly consist of elves who never saw the light of the trees, unless my elven lore is off(which is possible), which means they are lesser than the elves of Rivendell in the arts of smithing weapons and armor. Also, in both books and films, Legolas is clearly showed to not have worn armor at any point in the main trilogy, while Gimli openly wears armor in both. The best armor Legolas is shown to have worn in the films was a leather hauberk(with some sweet pauldrons), and leather armor is not going to stop Gimli's battleaxe. A dwarf mask would absolutely be able to stop an arrow, dwarf masks are famed for stopping dragon fire! Even without a dwarf mask, a sturdy dwarf helmet leaves only a small area to shoot at the wearers face, combined with the "heroic luck" that I mentioned more or less negates the advantage of Legolas' range. Combine that with the famed dwarven ringmail which can completely stop Legolas' slashing white knives, and I just don't see Legolas winning in close combat.

Additionally, you mention slowing or tiring out, this is not something that would come into play. The dwarves are famed for marching with incredible burdens, and need I reference the 3 hunters, where he literally runs for 3 days and nights with no rest? I think the fight would be over before 3 days and nights had passed. I don't see it as possible that Gimli would underestimate his foe, quite the contrary, he would take the known strengths of the elves(archery, agility) and prepare for them beforehand. Just like you say for heavy armor, agility does not make you invincible. 1 hit by Gimli would be all it takes, whereas Gimli could be hit again and again by Legolas with no effect. For me it comes down to again, Gimli having more advantages.

Final note, it is stated(or perhaps just heavily implied) in the books many times that Legolas' skill with the bow was matched by Gimli's skill with his axe, which means that in close combat Gimli would actually have the advantage. We can also take into account that Gimli gets more kills than Legolas even though he does not have any real form of ranged attack, but has to get them all up close and personal, which is another point for this theory.
« Letzte Änderung: 8. Nov 2015, 13:26 von Elite KryPtik »
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

Offline Fredius

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Re: Fanfiction fights!
« Antwort #24 am: 8. Nov 2015, 13:49 »
Gimli wore chainmail in the movies, about the books I don't remember. Chainmail is weaker than Plate Armor, so if he only wore that then Legolas could have skewered him with his arrows. Now let me expand on the Plate Armor a bit. If Gimli wore plate armor, it doesn't mean that he could have been invincible to arrows. Heavy Armor doesn't magically deflect arrows, even if the Dwarves were the best smiths of middle earth, I would still take the physic laws of our world into account. Iron/steel is still just Iron/steel, and that material can be pierced by arrows. If that's not the case then nothing could've stopped an army of Dwarves. And yes a mask of iron/steel can still be pierced by an arrow, Dragon fire doesn't deal the same damage as an arrow, an arrow pierces the mask, dragon fire does not. I don't want to apply the heroic luck into this, because I'd like to keep it realistic. If Gimli wore Mithril armor, perhaps then it would have been a different story.

Legolas has thousands of years of experience, why would he suddenly suck at close combat? I think you're severely underestimating the power of Legolas, master KryPtik :P. The three hunters ran for 3 days, but not in heavy armor. I believe he wouldn't last so long if he wore that. I

Offline LordDainIronfoot

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Re: Fanfiction fights!
« Antwort #25 am: 8. Nov 2015, 13:52 »
Well if we get a Good Armored Gimli against Legolas(even with LEather Armor) with the Points Elite stated out I do belive Gimli can take on and beat Legolas in Close Range fight
!:)

About the Gadnalf the White VS Witch King well to me it is Cleat the King ha not even a small chance!!Gandalf is Maiar while King is jsut Half Dead/Half Alive MAN! :) We can put it like thiseven ifthe King is evil you can get my Example we have Archangel vs Angel!? And Angle is still more powerfull than King!

I really dispised how PJ made Gandalf fear the King andthat King even breaks his staff and Almost kills and defeat Gandalf if it wasnt for Rohan Arrival!Really bad decision there by PJ!

Over all Gandalf even the Gray trumps King no problem at all! :)


Well if Gimli has Plate Armor with Chain Mail under it the Arrows will do almost No DMG or jsut small cuts which for a Dwarf is nothing!

P.S. Fredius Imagine if the Dwarves from Erebor and IHs in Movie had Plate Armor and Chain Mail Armor Made by MITHRIL!?? :D :D NOw I think they can WALK INTO MORDOR!! :D :D :D
"I will not stand down before any Elf,not least this Faithless Woodland Sprite,he wishesh nothing but ill upon my people...To Battle,to Battle Sons of Durin!!!..."

"You,think I give a dead dog about your threats you Pointy Ear Princess...Hear now lads,we are on...Let's give those bastards a good Hammering!!!..."

Offline Fredius

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Re: Fanfiction fights!
« Antwort #26 am: 8. Nov 2015, 14:03 »

Well if Gimli has Plate Armor with Chain Mail under it the Arrows will do almost No DMG or jsut small cuts which for a Dwarf is nothing!

P.S. Fredius Imagine if the Dwarves from Erebor and IHs in Movie had Plate Armor and Chain Mail Armor Made by MITHRIL!?? :D :D NOw I think they can WALK INTO MORDOR!! :D :D :D

No my friend that is not how armour works ;). Medieval knights wore leather padding, chainmail and plate armour but got still pierced and killed by arrows.

And yes an army full with Mithril wearers can walk into Mordor like it was just a day in the park xD.

Offline LordDainIronfoot

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Re: Fanfiction fights!
« Antwort #27 am: 8. Nov 2015, 14:49 »
Well true my friend,but we have to give some EXtra Points to MIddle Earth Dwarven Plate and Chain Mail and Leather even! :)

Well I guess in the time of Durin the Deathless and Durin the Last they indeed Used Mithril Made Armors and Weapons! ;) After all even the New Gate of Minas Tirith had Mithril in it! ;)
"I will not stand down before any Elf,not least this Faithless Woodland Sprite,he wishesh nothing but ill upon my people...To Battle,to Battle Sons of Durin!!!..."

"You,think I give a dead dog about your threats you Pointy Ear Princess...Hear now lads,we are on...Let's give those bastards a good Hammering!!!..."

Offline Elite KryPtik

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Re: Fanfiction fights!
« Antwort #28 am: 8. Nov 2015, 21:05 »
Historically, arrows are incapable of piercing plate armor unless they are specifically crafted to do so, and those usually had to be fired from a crossbow. Armor piercing arrows fired from a bow were very rare, and usually fell as I said to the crossbow, or to a ballista, neither of which Legolas has in his arsenal. This is all besides the point, because even the dwarven ringmail would be able to stop arrows better than any historical chain or ringmail. Any armor made by lotrish dwarves is not just going to be iron or steel, it will be enhanced with magic runes of protection, Tolkien references this many times. This is not just history we are taking into account here, its fantasy. I cannot remember ever reading or seeing anything about Elves enhancing their bows with magic, they just have very strong, lightweight bows and incredible accuracy.

This is still not enough to defeat the legendary armor of the dwarves. Evidence to this is when the rift happens in the Silmarillion, the army of the dwarves sacks Doriath and kills the army there, and it takes an additional army and a bunch of ambushing and surprise attacks to kill the army of the dwarves. In a straight on battle, the elves lose their biggest advantage, the element of surprise. If you want to do best armor vs best armor, then its plate armor vs leather armor, no contest. I completely disagree about being able to pierce the mask, every picture you can look up of dwarf war masks makes it pretty clear to me that they are wearing at least 2 inches of steel on their face, an arrow is not going to pierce that.

Finally, to end this stamina argument, in the battle of the 5 armies, ordinary dwarves march for an entire day and night wearing heavy armor, a battleaxe, sword and shield, and backpack full of supplies, and still arrive with enough strength to fight the elves. These are just normal, non-heroic dwarves. Gimli would not be tired by his armor, just slowed a bit, but this has been admitted by me from the start, I always said that Legolas was faster. I'm also personally not going to take any fight between heroes into account without their heroic luck, that's what makes them heroes. The best analogy I can think of for this fight is Ninja vs Spartan on Deadliest Warrior. The Ninja(Legolas) can HURT the Spartan(Gimli) but he cannot KILL him. That's all of my arguments, I'm simply not convinced that Legolas could defeat Gimli, his arrows could not pierce his armor and he would lose at close range.

I'm done talking about this particular matchup, lets have a new one :)
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

Offline Fredius

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Re: Fanfiction fights!
« Antwort #29 am: 9. Nov 2015, 00:25 »
If you think that bows can't pierce plate armor then you are very wrong, take the battle of Agincourt for example. What weapons did the English mainly use in that battle? Longbows. What armor did the French knights wear? Plate armor. The French got murdered because of the English Archers, so yes plate armor can be pierced by arrows. A longbow can pierce plate armor, perhaps not as strong as the late heavy crossbow, but it surely can: http://www.thebeckoning.com/medieval/crossbow/cross_l_v_c.html
Since Elves are known as the greatest archers, I do believe that they would've used longbows. And yes, if they can pierce plate armour, then they also can pierce face masks.

I am not very well versed with the books, but perhaps this article is of interest to you:
http://middle-earth.xenite.org/2014/11/19/what-kind-of-armor-did-tolkien-dwarves-use/

It could be possible that Dwarves didn't even wear plate armor, but just regular chainmail. Now that would be hilarious. Could you please tell me where it is cited that Dwarves enchant their armor and put magic runes on it, because I can't find this info on the internet?

I'm not continuing on the match-up now by the way, because we both disagree with each other about who will win, but we are talking about historical facts right now. That discussion I'd like to continue if you don't mind.