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LordDainIronfoot:
Well if we get a Good Armored Gimli against Legolas(even with LEather Armor) with the Points Elite stated out I do belive Gimli can take on and beat Legolas in Close Range fight
!:)

About the Gadnalf the White VS Witch King well to me it is Cleat the King ha not even a small chance!!Gandalf is Maiar while King is jsut Half Dead/Half Alive MAN! :) We can put it like thiseven ifthe King is evil you can get my Example we have Archangel vs Angel!? And Angle is still more powerfull than King!

I really dispised how PJ made Gandalf fear the King andthat King even breaks his staff and Almost kills and defeat Gandalf if it wasnt for Rohan Arrival!Really bad decision there by PJ!

Over all Gandalf even the Gray trumps King no problem at all! :)


--- Zitat von: Fredius am  8. Nov 2015, 13:49 ---Gimli wore chainmail in the movies, about the books I don't remember. Chainmail is weaker than Plate Armor, so if he only wore that then Legolas could have skewered him with his arrows. Now let me expand on the Plate Armor a bit. If Gimli wore plate armor, it doesn't mean that he could have been invincible to arrows. Heavy Armor doesn't magically deflect arrows, even if the Dwarves were the best smiths of middle earth, I would still take the physic laws of our world into account. Iron/steel is still just Iron/steel, and that material can be pierced by arrows. If that's not the case then nothing could've stopped an army of Dwarves. And yes a mask of iron/steel can still be pierced by an arrow, Dragon fire doesn't deal the same damage as an arrow, an arrow pierces the mask, dragon fire does not. I don't want to apply the heroic luck into this, because I'd like to keep it realistic. If Gimli wore Mithril armor, perhaps then it would have been a different story.

Legolas has thousands of years of experience, why would he suddenly suck at close combat? I think you're severely underestimating the power of Legolas, master KryPtik :P. The three hunters ran for 3 days, but not in heavy armor. I believe he wouldn't last so long if he wore that. I

--- Ende Zitat ---

Well if Gimli has Plate Armor with Chain Mail under it the Arrows will do almost No DMG or jsut small cuts which for a Dwarf is nothing!

P.S. Fredius Imagine if the Dwarves from Erebor and IHs in Movie had Plate Armor and Chain Mail Armor Made by MITHRIL!?? :D :D NOw I think they can WALK INTO MORDOR!! :D :D :D

Fredius:

--- Zitat von: LordDainIronfoot am  8. Nov 2015, 13:52 ---
Well if Gimli has Plate Armor with Chain Mail under it the Arrows will do almost No DMG or jsut small cuts which for a Dwarf is nothing!

P.S. Fredius Imagine if the Dwarves from Erebor and IHs in Movie had Plate Armor and Chain Mail Armor Made by MITHRIL!?? :D :D NOw I think they can WALK INTO MORDOR!! :D :D :D

--- Ende Zitat ---

No my friend that is not how armour works ;). Medieval knights wore leather padding, chainmail and plate armour but got still pierced and killed by arrows.

And yes an army full with Mithril wearers can walk into Mordor like it was just a day in the park xD.

LordDainIronfoot:
Well true my friend,but we have to give some EXtra Points to MIddle Earth Dwarven Plate and Chain Mail and Leather even! :)

Well I guess in the time of Durin the Deathless and Durin the Last they indeed Used Mithril Made Armors and Weapons! ;) After all even the New Gate of Minas Tirith had Mithril in it! ;)

Elite KryPtik:
Historically, arrows are incapable of piercing plate armor unless they are specifically crafted to do so, and those usually had to be fired from a crossbow. Armor piercing arrows fired from a bow were very rare, and usually fell as I said to the crossbow, or to a ballista, neither of which Legolas has in his arsenal. This is all besides the point, because even the dwarven ringmail would be able to stop arrows better than any historical chain or ringmail. Any armor made by lotrish dwarves is not just going to be iron or steel, it will be enhanced with magic runes of protection, Tolkien references this many times. This is not just history we are taking into account here, its fantasy. I cannot remember ever reading or seeing anything about Elves enhancing their bows with magic, they just have very strong, lightweight bows and incredible accuracy.

This is still not enough to defeat the legendary armor of the dwarves. Evidence to this is when the rift happens in the Silmarillion, the army of the dwarves sacks Doriath and kills the army there, and it takes an additional army and a bunch of ambushing and surprise attacks to kill the army of the dwarves. In a straight on battle, the elves lose their biggest advantage, the element of surprise. If you want to do best armor vs best armor, then its plate armor vs leather armor, no contest. I completely disagree about being able to pierce the mask, every picture you can look up of dwarf war masks makes it pretty clear to me that they are wearing at least 2 inches of steel on their face, an arrow is not going to pierce that.

Finally, to end this stamina argument, in the battle of the 5 armies, ordinary dwarves march for an entire day and night wearing heavy armor, a battleaxe, sword and shield, and backpack full of supplies, and still arrive with enough strength to fight the elves. These are just normal, non-heroic dwarves. Gimli would not be tired by his armor, just slowed a bit, but this has been admitted by me from the start, I always said that Legolas was faster. I'm also personally not going to take any fight between heroes into account without their heroic luck, that's what makes them heroes. The best analogy I can think of for this fight is Ninja vs Spartan on Deadliest Warrior. The Ninja(Legolas) can HURT the Spartan(Gimli) but he cannot KILL him. That's all of my arguments, I'm simply not convinced that Legolas could defeat Gimli, his arrows could not pierce his armor and he would lose at close range.

I'm done talking about this particular matchup, lets have a new one :)

Fredius:
If you think that bows can't pierce plate armor then you are very wrong, take the battle of Agincourt for example. What weapons did the English mainly use in that battle? Longbows. What armor did the French knights wear? Plate armor. The French got murdered because of the English Archers, so yes plate armor can be pierced by arrows. A longbow can pierce plate armor, perhaps not as strong as the late heavy crossbow, but it surely can: http://www.thebeckoning.com/medieval/crossbow/cross_l_v_c.html
Since Elves are known as the greatest archers, I do believe that they would've used longbows. And yes, if they can pierce plate armour, then they also can pierce face masks.

I am not very well versed with the books, but perhaps this article is of interest to you:
http://middle-earth.xenite.org/2014/11/19/what-kind-of-armor-did-tolkien-dwarves-use/

It could be possible that Dwarves didn't even wear plate armor, but just regular chainmail. Now that would be hilarious. Could you please tell me where it is cited that Dwarves enchant their armor and put magic runes on it, because I can't find this info on the internet?

I'm not continuing on the match-up now by the way, because we both disagree with each other about who will win, but we are talking about historical facts right now. That discussion I'd like to continue if you don't mind.

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