Brief Dwarven Suggestions

[Walküre]

There will be a debate about Durin but I think Thorin and Dáin is a great ring hero. It can be solved in other ways  that Durin stay in the game...

Of course, I would too suggest anyone interested in the Dáin/Thorin debate wait for the release, to establish a more articulate discussion with useful suggestions. Even though, if you nonetheless feel the need to post some brief hints on the matter, you are obviously more than free to do it in this exact brief suggestions space.

I think it would be quite a pity to abandon completely Durin and his concept either, knowing anyway that this was due to very justified technical issues. So, just to simply give a starting input: what about implementing Durin (and the Dwarven 'resurrection element' connected) as an ultimate spell? There might be a lot of changes and readjustments to make, but I guess it could be indeed worthy of some attention.

[kingsjewel]

I suggested earlier (not here) that Durin should be a Palantir spellbook's summon hero  instead of the Citadel. This maybe would be more useful too. The citadel sometimes is easily destructible. (The earthquake is more useful)
Sorry I have to use translator too that's why I write in short.

[Walküre]

Yes, I just saw your comment on ModDB. This little briefing of ideas could be very useful for establishing a related topic about this suggestion, when the time will come. I believe it's pretty much clear that the majority of the Edain Community wouldn't really like to get rid of Durin's concept from the game completely. The spell would thus be a proper compromise.

As far as I remember, the citadel spell has obviously its own role and logic in the faction; and the Edain Team (I don't remember now which member) already reaffirmed this aspect exhaustively during a past discussion. It was almost one year ago though, and the premises of a particular element can always change in time (in this case, the fact that Durin is not available anymore with the new Ring mechanism). Furthermore, honestly speaking, I have never been a so passionate fan of the citadel either.

[lordoflinks]

I think that Dain's Ringhero skillset should be swapped with his older self's one. I know that patch 4.4 isn't out yet, but considering that Dain Ironfoot drove his forces quite aggressively in the BOTFA, I think that King Dain's Ringhero skillset would fit better on him, while as a King during the WOTR he acted more defensive and "Thranduilish" to keep Erebor and Dale safe from the Easterlings

Furthermore, I think that giving to a defensive faction (Iron Hills) a bit more offense (through Ring-Dain) would give it a slightly more balanced gameplay (especially considering that standard Dain is already quite aggressive, so why should the Ring make him more defensive?)

I agree, particularity in regards to Vendetta and the ability to recruit units from all three realms. Vendetta does not make much sense with Older King Dain (OKD) as he defended Erebor against Rhun, while Younger King Dain (YKD)did quite specifically lead the dwarves in a vendetta against the Elves.
The same goes for the barracks ability, why does the Iron Hills a fairly isolated realm get it instead of Erberor the center of Dwarven culture?
One final point is that YKD has a mount, hence meaning he is meant to be a mobile hero, and for the ring to completely change this role feels iffy, personally I think his powers should be enhanced not completely changed.
One suggestion, if you do not want to change it for balance reasons can you release it as a simple 'lore' sub mod as currently it feels like OKD is leading the Iron Hills and YKD is leading Erebor when he gets the ring.

[DrHouse93]

After watching the latest Elite Kryptic's video, I completely agree with you, lordoflinks. Even if I obviously didn't play the new version, I think that King Dain's skillset doesn't fit on Dain Ironfoot, even if the Iron Hills are a defensive faction, and I prefer his current 4.3 skillset

[lordoflinks]

So they even changes around their non ring hero abilities Thats... not good.
On a side note if Durin became a spell I would rather see Earthquake go to accommodate him as he possess earthquake like abilities.

[kingsjewel]

So they even changes around their non ring hero abilities Thats... not good.
On a side note if Durin became a spell I would rather see Earthquake go to accommodate him as he possess earthquake like abilities.

It is also a not bad idea.

[NetoD20]

Since that you guys are talking about the new dwarven ring heroes, just a quick question: isn't it possible for the new dwarven ring heroes (Thorin, King Dáin, and Lord Dáin) instead of becoming more powerful, to just summon Durin to the battlefield once they get the Ring? Like Elrond summons the Fellowship? I'm sorry if it's already been asked.
Of course, if that were to be possible, I can see some people complaining that summoning Durin out of the blue would be strange. Well, idk, if certain effects were to be added, perhaps it could be made to resemble the current Durin-explodes-out-of-a-statue situation.
Another idea would be that, in this system, only King/Lord Dáin would summon Durin, while Thorin would keep the Ring to himself and be consumed by his own greed.

[kingsjewel]

I think if Thorin owned the Ring he would have used it.
Dáin..it is a good question, you're right. He isn't a greedy or power hungry personality. But I don't understand , if Durin could stay in the game,(as a summoned hero from Palantir) why could not stay Thorin and Dáin Ringhero.
Every other faction have no a different hero for the ring. I support that Durin stay in the game, but I support the new ringheroes, too.

[NetoD20]

I don't know, I'm not very fond of the idea of Dáin using the ring. I'm not saying he wouldn't be tempted, or that he would be strong enough to resist, but idk, I just don't like it. I support the new ring heroes, but only if Durin can't be summoned instead (which I fear it's probably true).

I do not believe Durin is a good fit for the spellbook either, the ressurection of Durin is something that should only happen in very special circunstances, and that would be in possesion of the ring. To be honest, I'm a huge Imladris fan, it's my favourite faction, and even though the Last Alliance spell is mighty fun, I still find it rather unfitting too.

Also, I suggest that the young, and perhaps proud, Thorin III Stonehelm would make a better ring hero than Dáin.

I would even go on to say that, if Thorin III could get the Ring in the game, it would be interesting if crowned himself King and murdered his father. Thorin would then be a very powerful ring hero, but Dáin would become unrecruitable, and if you already recruited him, he would disappear from the battlefield. You would, of course, be repayed in the powers of the ring hero. But I know people are probably gonna hate this last suggestion lol

[kingsjewel]

No, your last suggestion is very interesting. I also have already thought that Thorin III also would be ringhero. Your background story about him also would be unique.
Maybe too much the two Dáin as ringhero that's why his ringhero form seems useless. (I don't agree either  that Dáin is the leader of two dwarven faction but I understand the reasons).
Truly I'm a fan of  Thorin Oakenshield 's ringhero form it seems really great and majestic and it also would be lore-accurate if he owned the Ring. It would be pity if his ringhero form disappear. But you are right about Dáin.

[LordDainIronfoot]

I am not very found of the idea of Dain and Thorin being Ring Heroes,especially since I am a big Fan if Durin as Ring Hero and that he was one of the most unique Dwarven Things in the Mod.


Also considering how Dain refused and offer of all Remaining Dwarf Rings I doubt he would want to have the One Ring.

But all this is just my opinion,I will deeply miss Durin and will ruin big part of my Fun playing,but still the Mod remains the most epic of them all! :-)

[Odysseus]

I see where you are coming from Dain, but I'm afraid this is where gameplay has to prevail over lore. Technically speaking, both ring systems the Dwarves have currently had are blasphemous lore-wise, but I think, in the mentioned ''what if?'' scenario, the Dwarves making use of the ring is not out of the question, at least not as much as a ring that had absolutely no ties to the father of the Dwarves whatsoever and that would revive him still .

I am sure it was a bit of a hard choice for ET, but gameplay-wise, they still added most of his abilities to the existing Dwarven faction leaders, with some other abilities catering to the gameplay styles of the different Dwarven realms.

In fact, I think ET has the right idea with this ring mechanic approach, where the ring gives great power, but that power comes at a price, which is beautifully reflected in Dain's passives. I'd love to see more of this approach in the future for the ring heroes of the other factions. There is so much potential with this, we have no idea haha.

[Walküre]

Technically speaking, both ring systems the Dwarves have currently had are blasphemous lore-wise, but I think, in the mentioned ''what if?'' scenario, the Dwarves making use of the ring is not out of the question, at least not as much as a ring that had absolutely no ties to the father of the Dwarves whatsoever and that would revive him still .

I agree with you on this aspect; also, I would even dare to say that it was indeed a matter of lore too. As you wrote correctly, the previous and the current Ring concepts are probably not the easiest choices to handle, and they have certainly sparked a bit of disapproval among the Community then and now. But, in retrospect, as much as the previous concept was a very innovative feature, it was undoubtedly the most lore-blasphemous of the two: reviving such mythical Dwarven character via such evil means, while the Dáin/Thorin option surely gives you more 'speculative liberty' as a legitimate what-if scenario (just like Théoden).

Not to mention the whole renewal of the whole Ring system in the game, that exactly gave the developers technical justified reasons for replacing the old mechanics. I too believe it was rather a bold choice to make, and I'm sure that it will nonetheless give the very Edain Mod more consistency in lore-related terms (even if the past concept was not so manageable to get rid of). This is something I in fact wanted all the people complaining on ModDB to understand; with quite some difficulty, I have to admit 

Nevertheless, I would also like to underline the just remark of Dáin about the huge importance that Durin had in the game and still has for the entire Dwarven culture. As my hints above suggested, I guess the character really deserves to be part of the faction anyway, and what I deem a possible proper place could be the spellbook. The citadel spell has too its pivotal role in the Dwarven gameplay, but a more 'political answer' might be held in higher consideration than pure gameplay: that is, the will of preserving such iconic hero as Durin is.

I would say there is a very favourable ground to establish a new discussion in regards of this said topic; it would be interesting to see a thread being developed and conceiving constructive suggestions in the meantime. Probably, on the eve of a future overhaul of each faction's spellbook, we might now be at a turning point for making such proposals 

[CragLord]

One small question which could be translated as suggestion in same time, why Drar and Murin have sound packs of Arken Guard and Unburnt units? In earlier version of mod they had unique nice sound packs. Why is this changed? Is possible to restore old sound packs to them?