Hero type in description

[Saruman_the_wise]

hello ET and edainers i'm simply proposing that in the description of every hero mention their role be it as a hero killer, supporter, etc. IN GAME 

[WarOfTheRingVeteran]

And there you have it

http://en.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,30866.msg390464.html#msg390464

[NetoD20]

I think that's a very good and simple idea, I totally second it @Saruman_the_Wise
It would be great indeed if the hero's role were displayed in his description in the game.

[Saruman_the_wise]

And there you have it

http://en.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,30866.msg390464.html#msg390464

i'm aware of that thread but in game, to new players and players not apart of modding union its useless.

[WarOfTheRingVeteran]

Oh...

Hold on! Is this some kind of a coincidence or what? I posted that idea on ModDB just about an hour ago.

Nevertheless... ya got my support

[Saruman_the_wise]

No I saw your comment and thought that's a good idea and new that if a thread was not made on modding union it would be forgotten so good thinking!

[WarOfTheRingVeteran]

No I saw your comment and thought that's a good idea and new that if a thread was not made on modding union it would be forgotten so good thinking!

Oh... (again) XD

I actually wanted it to be written by someone else, since I don't really care... so thanks!

[CragLord]

This isn't bad idea, but  speaking in general there would be some heroes with more roles in same time, for example Thorin III. That hero is building/unit/hero supporter, tank and killer at same time. And for example you write all of this in description of citadel button of Thorin III. Would be that so useful to nobbie? I am giving just example, ofc there are many more heroes with different roles. Simply Gimly also DPS and Tank...
In general this could be also confusing if you take some of similar examples like those.
Personally I think it is best to read all descriptions of hero abilites and then decide how you want to play him and from gameplay mistakes to learn which is the best role for hero. It is the best way to learn possibilities of heroes and roles of same. Simply I really don't think that nobbie or someone who doesn't know how to play game will get some enlightenment with this information.
From my perspective, I think this is good idea but it will be also confusing for some heroes (because if their multi role), mainly if this is referring nobbie problems.

Kind regards

[HoarmurathOfDir]

This isn't bad idea, but  speaking in general there would be some heroes with more roles in same time, for example Thorin III. That hero is building/unit/hero supporter, tank and killer at same time. And for example you write all of this in description of citadel button of Thorin III. Would be that so useful to nobbie? I am giving just example, ofc there are many more heroes with different roles. Simply Gimly also DPS and Tank...
In general this could be also confusing if you take some of similar examples like those.
Personally I think it is best to read all descriptions of hero abilites and then decide how you want to play him and from gameplay mistakes to learn which is the best role for hero. It is the best way to learn possibilities of heroes and roles of same. Simply I really don't think that nobbie or someone who doesn't know how to play game will get some enlightenment with this information.
From my perspective, I think this is good idea but it will be also confusing for some heroes (because if their multi role), mainly if this is referring nobbie problems.

Kind regards

Maybe just "multitasker"? It's better than nothing after all.

[CragLord]

Ok, you have description in citadel's production button "multitasker".
How will you play with that hero?
Was this informative at first place or it is just added to fit hole in suggestion?
I just wanted to point on a possible problem here.

Regards

[HoarmurathOfDir]

I think it would be just to make a first impression on that hero. It wouldnt realy work with Thorin, but for example in lothlorien, when a new player sees a horde of enemy heroes, he can easly notice that Celeborn is a good choice for him.

[Saruman_the_wise]

Heroes in edain only have a max of 3 real roles the rest are just small aspects
there for it could just be like this:

Primary Role: Hero killer
Secondary Role: Tank
Tertiary Role: Building Destroyer

There's no problem at all.

[HoarmurathOfDir]

And you could also add a multitasker (ex. Thorin III)and a supporter (ex. Denethor)

[Saruman_the_wise]

yeah but multitasker is too vague i'd prefer the 3 roles system

[NetoD20]

yeah but multitasker is too vague i'd prefer the 3 roles system

I agree, it's too vague, gotta be the whole thing.
Also I think there is no problem with big texts, I remember seeing very long ones in 3.8.1 Imladris

[HoarmurathOfDir]

Ok, no multitasker, but you must admit that heroes like Denethor aren't any of these three types.

[Saruman_the_wise]

debethor is a support hero that's it

[hoho96]

I like the idea. If a noobe understand it or not, it will still be better than nothing at all.
At least you would  have an ingame answer for "why this hero dies too fast to units?" Or "why this hero is supper good vs heroes?" And such.
Most heroes could be described in a single word derived from their attack, HP, and armor values. The other secondary roles usually come from their powers and abilities which can easily be read to determine what the hero is actually capable of.

[HoarmurathOfDir]

Got an amazing idea (not ryly)! Someone from the team should make a short 5 min tutorials on how to play a certain faction, with a moment on every hero, and link it basicaly EVERYWHERE, so that those noobies aren't left alone. I just (sadly) don't think that anyone new would watch it.

[Skeeverboy]

Got an amazing idea (not ryly)! Someone from the team should make a short 5 min tutorials on how to play a certain faction, with a moment on every hero, and link it basicaly EVERYWHERE, so that those noobies aren't left alone. I just (sadly) don't think that anyone new would watch it.

This is very much work for the team. So they have no time for modding or for there real live.

And why destroy all the anticipation when you are a new player? It is funny to found all things self. You can't really say how to play with a faction, because it gives to much different ways.

It gives some Youtubers who show every faction, for example King Krümelus. (but he is german)

[HoarmurathOfDir]

I must agree that exploring>playing better

[CragLord]

yeah but multitasker is too vague i'd prefer the 3 roles system

From objective distance of thinking it is impossible to classify all heroes in game in three classes you proposed(support in general meaning of word, which could be unit/hero/building support we refer as support, mass slayer, scout (which is some kind of support but not support in general), that is also roles which are equal with those you suggested in general).


Simply I said earlier that I like idea, but there is a lot "holes" in current preposition.
If we really want this in game, we must think about filling of that "holes".
Also I think it would be good for most of heroes whose role is precisely know from start, but also there is problem always because there is a lot of heroes which could have many roles at same time. And because of that you simply can't in one word describe their role in game, or get answer why they are weak or strong or have great armor or low hp. Did you know that for instance Pipin/Marry are in scout class, which could be described as some support class. And after reaching level 10 you could use them as instant damage dealers (kamikazu heroes, jump, deal damage and die if it is focused more then 2-3 sec), it is funny and ironic in same time.
Dwarven heroes are also main problem in this preposition, because all of them have many almost equal roles in same time. Most of them have great DPS(damage per second) so they kill most of other heroes with ease, also a lot of armor (even before they get mithril, after it is a show, they became semi tanks or  true tanks), and at the end they have specialization, but that specialization is not something which marks them or which should tell someone who to play that hero. Best way to get some info about hero and learn proper way to play it is gameplay, that is my opinion. I know what you proposed and maybe I have gone to far, but you must always be objective when you are suggesting implementation of something.
And preposition should be referring equally to all heroes, so from my perspective when you suggest something which should be implemented partially, better is not to implement that at all. Later that causes a text bugs and similar stuff, and "hola" there is bonus job for some betatesters and ET in general. 
Simply I think that current hero system is to complex so you could describe all of heroes with one word, and that is main preposition in this topic.
Also I admit and agree that it could be very useful, but in same time if this couldn't refer to all heroes equally than better not to implement at first place.

Kind regards

[kai69]

I support this idea, the first time I played edain it was very confusing what role had which hero. I think that many people may download the mod and dont read MU, maybe because they dont know that much english or because they only play the game and look up for updates. Thats my case with 2 friends.

[Saruman_the_wise]

yeah but multitasker is too vague i'd prefer the 3 roles system

From objective distance of thinking it is impossible to classify all heroes in game in three classes you proposed(support in general meaning of word, which could be unit/hero/building support we refer as support, mass slayer, scout (which is some kind of support but not support in general), that is also roles which are equal with those you suggested in general).


Simply I said earlier that I like idea, but there is a lot "holes" in current preposition.
If we really want this in game, we must think about filling of that "holes".
Also I think it would be good for most of heroes whose role is precisely know from start, but also there is problem always because there is a lot of heroes which could have many roles at same time. And because of that you simply can't in one word describe their role in game, or get answer why they are weak or strong or have great armor or low hp. Did you know that for instance Pipin/Marry are in scout class, which could be described as some support class. And after reaching level 10 you could use them as instant damage dealers (kamikazu heroes, jump, deal damage and die if it is focused more then 2-3 sec), it is funny and ironic in same time.
Dwarven heroes are also main problem in this preposition, because all of them have many almost equal roles in same time. Most of them have great DPS(damage per second) so they kill most of other heroes with ease, also a lot of armor (even before they get mithril, after it is a show, they became semi tanks or  true tanks), and at the end they have specialization, but that specialization is not something which marks them or which should tell someone who to play that hero. Best way to get some info about hero and learn proper way to play it is gameplay, that is my opinion. I know what you proposed and maybe I have gone to far, but you must always be objective when you are suggesting implementation of something.
And preposition should be referring equally to all heroes, so from my perspective when you suggest something which should be implemented partially, better is not to implement that at all. Later that causes a text bugs and similar stuff, and "hola" there is bonus job for some betatesters and ET in general. 
Simply I think that current hero system is to complex so you could describe all of heroes with one word, and that is main preposition in this topic.
Also I admit and agree that it could be very useful, but in same time if this couldn't refer to all heroes equally than better not to implement at first place.

Kind regards

your point are terribly invalid. yes merry and pippin have one level 10 ability which allows them to deal a high amount of damage, that doesn't make them mass slayers or damage dealers O_o and its pretty obvious what support means, if your argument is that a scout hero is a support hero then every single hero in game is a support hero and there there fore if support is to much of a problem then just change it to damage booster or healer, buffer ,etc...
there really isn't a problem

[CragLord]

your point are terribly invalid. yes merry and pippin have one level 10 ability which allows them to deal a high amount of damage, that doesn't make them mass slayers or damage dealers O_o and its pretty obvious what support means, if your argument is that a scout hero is a support hero then every single hero in game is a support hero and there there fore if support is to much of a problem then just change it to damage booster or healer, buffer ,etc...
there really isn't a problem

Yes, I have just mentioned them. They are heroes with scout role, that is obvious, I am not basing my reasons on them, just mentioned them as very specific scouts. There is much more other examples to add here. No, I have maybe wrote that in wrong way. I meant scouting as supporting in meaning of word. Nvm, they aren't so good example at all.
I have expressed other things in my previous comment also, but naturaly main wrong part is always quoted. I want to tell you that always is better to have precise definition of role instead of having some descriptive words (which have been suggested above, multitasker etc) which aren't informative at all.
And if you can't apply on all heroes there is problem, there is no generality in suggestion and this makes differences in game in general. That is not good.
I really like suggestions and it will be very informative for nobbies or other people who don't have access to MU, but simply I don't like situation with some heroes which role couldn't be described properly...

[kai69]

Dont complicate so much, the idea is simply having these descriptions http://en.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,30866.msg390464.html#msg390464 in the description of the heroes

[Saruman_the_wise]

your point are terribly invalid. yes merry and pippin have one level 10 ability which allows them to deal a high amount of damage, that doesn't make them mass slayers or damage dealers O_o and its pretty obvious what support means, if your argument is that a scout hero is a support hero then every single hero in game is a support hero and there there fore if support is to much of a problem then just change it to damage booster or healer, buffer ,etc...
there really isn't a problem

Yes, I have just mentioned them. They are heroes with scout role, that is obvious, I am not basing my reasons on them, just mentioned them as very specific scouts. There is much more other examples to add here. No, I have maybe wrote that in wrong way. I meant scouting as supporting in meaning of word. Nvm, they aren't so good example at all.
I have expressed other things in my previous comment also, but naturaly main wrong part is always quoted. I want to tell you that always is better to have precise definition of role instead of having some descriptive words (which have been suggested above, multitasker etc) which aren't informative at all.
And if you can't apply on all heroes there is problem, there is no generality in suggestion and this makes differences in game in general. That is not good.
I really like suggestions and it will be very informative for nobbies or other people who don't have access to MU, but simply I don't like situation with some heroes which role couldn't be described properly...

first I didn't quote "but naturaly main wrong part is always quoted" I quoted the entire post second "is better to have precise definition of role instead of having some descriptive words (which have been suggested above, multitasker etc) which aren't informative at all. " the multitasker thing was disregarded almost immediately because its to vague and every heroes role can be described perfectly just by applying what was written for them by Tiberius your really over complicating and trying to find reasons why this wouldn't work when there really aren't any.

[hoho96]

Guys it's a really simple equation;

these descriptions http://en.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,30866.msg390464.html#msg390464 in the description of the heroes

As I said before, all main roles can be derived from the hero's attack, HP, and armor values, (after all, those values are mainly based on what the hero is meant to do).
There's absolutely no need for anything remotely related to secondary roles via powers and abilities, simply because those abilities already have their description text!

Think about it for a minute; you can identify the effect of a power by simply reading the text, or just improvise and use it in practice 
The same goes for the actual hero. You would read his text (mass slayer, scout, hero supporter, army leader,..etc) and get an idea what he/she does, or try him in an actual situation to see what works best.

Also similar to reading powers description, for the first use you're not really sure what to expect until you actually use the power. But you still learn how to use it.
Again, same goes for heroes. You read "building destroyer" and think "Oh cool, this guy should be strong to buildings" but until you actually attack a building, you're not sure how powerful he is, or what it's like to use him against infantry instead. But at least you know that he should primarily be USED VS BUILDINGS.

[Saruman_the_wise]

Guys it's a really simple equation;

these descriptions http://en.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,30866.msg390464.html#msg390464 in the description of the heroes

As I said before, all main roles can be derived from the hero's attack, HP, and armor values, (after all, those values are mainly based on what the hero is meant to do).
There's absolutely no need for anything remotely related to secondary roles via powers and abilities, simply because those abilities already have their description text!

Think about it for a minute; you can identify the effect of a power by simply reading the text, or just improvise and use it in practice 
The same goes for the actual hero. You would read his text (mass slayer, scout, hero supporter, army leader,..etc) and get an idea what he/she does, or try him in an actual situation to see what works best.

Also similar to reading powers description, for the first use you're not really sure what to expect until you actually use the power. But you still learn how to use it.
Again, same goes for heroes. You read "building destroyer" and think "Oh cool, this guy should be strong to buildings" but until you actually attack a building, you're not sure how powerful he is, or what it's like to use him against infantry instead. But at least you know that he should primarily be USED VS BUILDINGS.

Exactly!!!

[Gandalf The Gray]

good idea saruman

[Darkslayer]

hello ET and edainers i'm simply proposing that in the description of every hero mention their role be it as a hero killer, supporter, etc. IN GAME 

Great idea, I'd be for it!

[Melkor Bauglir]

I think it's a useless feature which will just inflate the hero descriptions. If you even once used this hero, you definitely know, what he is good for.
Also, it might be not very precise in most cases: The Witchking would be titled as "supporter, mass slayer, hero killer and hero supporter" -that's like half the roles that are! Or take secondary roles: Beregond's ranged debuff actually makes him a really strong assistant in enemy hero takedowns, however his other spells focus on defensive and hero support. What is with all these minor things a hero does have to offer which differentiate from his normal role? Or if people jugde a hero's role differently: E.g. Eomer is supposed to be a mass slayer (this description alone is actually already a bit overused as total untraditional heroes are referred too as mass slayers), but at the moment he really isn't. This would certain cause a lot more confusion, than resolving. I therefore think this idea doesn't have a real purpose in the game and I am very strongly against it.

Greetings
Melkor Bauglir