Melkor, Gothmog (the balrog) and other garden pests

[The_Necromancer0]

This suggestion is massive so make sure you read every detail as they relate to each other. I try, throughout this "essay", to make it as balanced as possible but there will be need of some serious balancing. Therefore feel free to share your thoughts on any improvements to be made.

So, the idea behind Sauron's level up system is the whole "regaining lost power" theme. You gain more troops in an attempt to bring Sauron back to his former glory. In that mindset I was thinking of a new power for the 10 speelbook power. Here's how it goes:

Grond power is moved to Gothmog's (orc) palantir and replaces the "Release the prisoners power" which is moved to the catapults' palantir as powers that reload at the same speed as his actual power. So, Catapult can now use "Release the prisoners" as a one shot every X seconds/minutes and Gothmog gains a new Lv 7 ability which allows him to permanently summon Grond at the selected Great Siegework. I suggest Grond HP and Armor is nerfed a bit in response to his downgrade in the requirements.

This means that there is a free spot for the a LV 10 power in the Spellbook. Now there's where the main working comes in. Staying with the vibe of "bring back the lost power" I thoughts we could bring back... Gothmog!! What do you mean he's already a hero? Ohh.. I see, no not the Lieutenant of Minas Morgul, this Gothmog:

As a Level Ten Power:
Sauron calls upon the power of times long forgotten and bring back the Lord of Balrogs under his command for a limited time.
The lord of Balrogs would be the same model as the regular but a bit bigger. He would have the same powers cause it's pretty cool.

To my eyes this would really make the powers in the Spellbook more worthwhile as for now the power of past ages is useless if you get the ring and can only be useful a maximum of once. This I believe will strengthen the offensive side of Mordor's magic end game.

I realize that Mordor is already very strong with Sauron having twice the amount of powers then any other heroes. But I believe that currently the end power are not the best as Grond can be a bit buggy and only one on the field at the time, power of past ages can only be useful once and Tol-In-Gorauth can only be one on the field at the time

Gothmog (balrog) would be a brutal offensive machine that can dig through the enemy spam in seconds, especially Rohan IA and attack buildings. This is Lore accurate as many fans have theorized based on the different facts that Sauron's goal would be in the end to bring back Melkor to rule in his place and therefore bringing back along his lieutenant.

So? Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions? Pledges to the power of Sauron ?

[Skeeverboy]

Sry, but I'm against this suggestion.
The Balrog has removed from Mordor, because just the Misty Mountains should have him. A other Balrog how Gothmog is just a doubling to this Spell, so it looses his uniqueness.
And it isn't possible to revive a death Maiar I think.

[The_Necromancer0]

Did not know that, thanks for the update. Do you agree with the rest of the post which in the end would free up a spot in the spell book? While I was sure that somethings was gonna pop up about the Balrog, I still think that Mordor needs a better end game power. Any thoughts? I was looking at a single heroic unit summon of some sort to allow quick offensive.

[Fredius]

I too am against a Balrog clone; but why not use another kind of old legendary beast from the First age as a summon? I forgot about what kind of creatures there were present at that time though .

[Odysseus]

I do not think this is needed. There are a couple of counter arguments to be made for your essay.

1. The timeline must be respected as much as possible. The Third Age mostly, with the only exception being, if there is a lack for anything better for a faction, like Imladris' Last Alliance summon. 1st Age creatures will not really work.

2. Further lore accuracy. During the 3rd age, the only directly known Balrog to be alive was Durin's Bane under the Misty Mountains, in Khazad-dum. Therefore, it will belong to the Misty Mountains faction. Just like Skeeverboy said, only Mandos can judge a soul to return, but he does not do so with Saruman, Sauron, Gothmog etc, because they are evil and they wish to destroy the order of the Valar and that's why they become wandering spirits in the void, having their souls rejected/not judged.

3. Balance is probably the most important from these three. Mordor already has an incredibly strong late-game. Grond is specifically designed to crack open the Fortresses, since Mordor's normal siege is not the strongest. Gorthaur's ''Power of the Past Ages'' is there to give Sauron some field presence on the field if the ring is disabled or cannot be found/acquired. If we were to give them even another mass-slayer, Mordor will be unstoppable.

There are other arguments to be made, but I think these will suffice.

Finally, fans theorising about what Sauron's ultimate goal would be as lore-inaccurate as it can get. The only lore to ever exist is the work given to us by the Tolkiens and nobody else. This is the harsh truth, I'm afraid.

I hope you realise that these kind of ideas are cool on paper, but they barely make any sense for the mod. I hope you can see that and I apologise if I come across as offensive.

That said, I advise you to keep improving your suggestions and accord yourself to the aims and wishes of ET, since I did like how you structured your post, demonstrating solid reasoning methods, and did not go ''please add unit x or y cuz OMG THEY Look/R so C00L'', because that's kind of what I expected when someone mentions add 2nd Age or 1st Age heroes, creatures or armies.

Kind regards.

[The_Necromancer0]

Thanks for taking the time to reply and putting so much effort into this 

Point 1 and 2: I see that now and agree with you.

Point 3: I don't know about you, but I've never been able to play multiplayer (no-cd version) and therefore my experienced is limited to AI fights. In this case it's easy to win with mordor since the AI only mass spams. With players I would expect that Mordor would be at more of a disadvantage considering they can train cavalry and use it effectively, use the spell book powers, and overall human strategy (flanking, isolating, formation). This is why I believe this is needed.
However my multiplayer experience is not good enough to judge. So far 2 people have agreed and 2 people have disagreed. Let's see what pops up next.

[Elite KryPtik]

Mordor is currently the strongest faction in the game, at all phases of the game. They have no weaknesses at any point. Isengard and Dwarves are weak early game, Rohan is super weak late game, and Gondor really only excels mid-game while their tower guards are supreme. That being said, Gondor is really the best counter to Mordor late game with all of their summons, as it should be. Mordor has the best roster of units, not to mention the most units in general, the strongest hero, free units, the most heroes behind the yet-to-be-releases Lothlorien, and finally they get units that cost 0 CP, meaning their army will ALWAYS be bigger than the enemies army. They do not need any big gameplay buffs, or any new features, they are already perfect, and indeed a little bit OP.

In regards to being bale to play online, go to Forshires blog, you'll be all set.

[WarOfTheRingVeteran]

I must admit, I find this idea quite interesting, that's for sure. But as some said already, it reduces the uniqueness of the faction since MM already has a balrog summon.

And I do have the reason I'm against this suggestion: Gothmog's death was one of the major events in the First Age, and I believe it'd be bad to change history like that.

[Walküre]

As many other people have exhaustively explained, this proposal is really lore disruptive and totally problematic concerning balance and the holistic structure of Mordor, as a faction.
I, thus, lock this topic, and, I sincerely think that any possibility of a reopening is definitely and highly unlikely, for the reasons stated above.

It took a legendary, epic, iconic and mythical duel in an equally legendary City to slay one of the deadliest Banes of the Noldor of Beleriand in the War of the Jewels, and the City itself was destroyed and forever left to the Sorrowful Tales of the Silmarillion.
I would personally never desire a return of Gothmog in the War of the Ring (not even fictional) 

--- Locked ---