Dwarven Balance Discussion

[Maraelion]

I completely agree with Elite. Besides, IH got also Thorin's runes which work quite similar to traditional leaderships and are very powerful.
Greetings
Maraelion

[LordDainIronfoot]

I too believe that IHs doesn't need Passive Leadership since it incredible good Temporary Leadership from different Heroes plus Thorin Runes which are awesome and even better than Passive Leadership.

Greetings from the Lord of the Iron Hills.

[Hamanathnath]

I'm surprised that this hasn't been brought up yet, but the Iron Hills Ram Riders are ridiculously strong when paired with Narin, being able to kill pretty much any unit, including Pikes, with ease.  They don't take much trample revenge damage, they do incredible damage in melee combat, and they take so much damage to kill.  I know they are supposed to be strong because there are only allowed to be 3 of them, but they are near impossible to kill for how early you can get them.  In my opinion they need some serious nerfs. 

[Leri_weill]

I'm surprised that this hasn't been brought up yet, but the Iron Hills Ram Riders are ridiculously strong when paired with Narin, being able to kill pretty much any unit, including Pikes, with ease.  They don't take much trample revenge damage, they do incredible damage in melee combat, and they take so much damage to kill.  I know they are supposed to be strong because there are only allowed to be 3 of them, but they are near impossible to kill for how early you can get them.  In my opinion they need some serious nerfs.

Just kill Narin 

[ringbearer]

I'm surprised that this hasn't been brought up yet, but the Iron Hills Ram Riders are ridiculously strong when paired with Narin, being able to kill pretty much any unit, including Pikes, with ease.  They don't take much trample revenge damage, they do incredible damage in melee combat, and they take so much damage to kill.  I know they are supposed to be strong because there are only allowed to be 3 of them, but they are near impossible to kill for how early you can get them.  In my opinion they need some serious nerfs.

As much as I like ram riders, yeah you are right. You can destroys camps alone just with narin and ram riders.

[Elite KryPtik]

Well I did bring it up and said Narin needs a nerf in my earlier post, but you are right of course. Just nerfing Narin won't be enough, the ram riders are pretty OP too just on their own.

[Draco100000]

Im completely agree to nerf this ridicolous ram riders who can kill any unit in the game.

I dont know if this is a bug but Balin stats are really low, just 3500 health and 350 dmg for a hero who cost 1600? I think he should be buffed at least in health to 4500 or 5000.

I know Thorin is strong as well dwalin but other heros like Hwaldar, the nazgul , gamling, beregond etc who cost around 1000 and 1400 have more than 400 dmg and around 4000 -5000 health. I just think that balin should have equal stats at least .(Thinking in how outnumbered can be the dwarvfen heros they used to have better stats, but I think they have almost same stats than others), but Balin now is too weak to deal with any hero.

I also know that you can give him mithril but thats something of the mid to late game while balin should be an early to mid game hero.( And in my opinion Mithril shouldnt be necesary to get the same strong as other faction heros, i think it should be an advantage).

[Hamanathnath]

Balin does have a low amount of health, but I think that is balanced out by how strong every other hero is, and how many summon heroes you can get, and also being able to get Mithril.

Anyways, I would like to make a proposal concerning the Mithril Shirts for heroes.  Because of the limit on how many Dwarven Khazad-dum Veterans you can have at one time(which is 3), it is hard to get your heroes Mithril.  To get all your heroes Mithril, you have to kill off some of your Veterans.  Now this isn't much of a problem for Erebor, becuase they only have 4 heroes who can get Mithril (because Nori gets it automatically once he reaches level 10), but for Iron Hills with 5 heroes, and Ered Luin with 7 heroes, this is more of a problem.  I don't think people should be sacrificing their heroic units to improve their heroes. 

So my suggestion is that Veterans have a cooldown on their Mithril Shirt Ability.  The cooldown will be extremely long (say 8 mins or so), but this means that you will not have to kill them to get more Mithril Shirts. 

Now Ered Luin would still have to wait a long time to get all their heroes Mithril Shirts, so I have a suggestion for them.  I think Bilbo should get his Mithril Shirt automatically once Thorin Oakenshield is recruited.  Not only does this make sense in terms of lore (or at leas I'd assume so, it's shown in the Hobbit Movies and Mentioned in the Lord of the Rings movies), but it would make 1 less hero to give Mithril too.  Bilbo is usually the last person you should give mithril too because the other heroes need it more, so this would make it easier for every hero to get Mithril.

I would like to hear opinion on these suggestions.

Greetings, Hamanathnath

[Draco100000]

Balin does have a low amount of health, but I think that is balanced out by how strong every other hero is, and how many summon heroes you can get, and also being able to get Mithril.

Anyways, I would like to make a proposal concerning the Mithril Shirts for heroes.  Because of the limit on how many Dwarven Khazad-dum Veterans you can have at one time(which is 3), it is hard to get your heroes Mithril.  To get all your heroes Mithril, you have to kill off some of your Veterans.  Now this isn't much of a problem for Erebor, becuase they only have 4 heroes who can get Mithril (because Nori gets it automatically once he reaches level 10), but for Iron Hills with 5 heroes, and Ered Luin with 7 heroes, this is more of a problem.  I don't think people should be sacrificing their heroic units to improve their heroes. 

So my suggestion is that Veterans have a cooldown on their Mithril Shirt Ability.  The cooldown will be extremely long (say 8 mins or so), but this means that you will not have to kill them to get more Mithril Shirts. 

Now Ered Luin would still have to wait a long time to get all their heroes Mithril Shirts, so I have a suggestion for them.  I think Bilbo should get his Mithril Shirt automatically once Thorin Oakenshield is recruited.  Not only does this make sense in terms of lore (or at leas I'd assume so, it's shown in the Hobbit Movies and Mentioned in the Lord of the Rings movies), but it would make 1 less hero to give Mithril too.  Bilbo is usually the last person you should give mithril too because the other heroes need it more, so this would make it easier for every hero to get Mithril.

I would like to hear opinion on these suggestions.

Greetings, Hamanathnath

So all the heros i have mentioned before shouldnt have reduced health too? I mean Hwaldar is much more usefull than balin, as well Beregond. I think it is unfair Balin being that weak.

[Sawman]

Balin is very useful, probably one of the best supporters in the game if you can get him leveled, he makes your heros able to take on an entire army because of his runes that he can give out. Not to mention he can save your entire army from certain death with a teleport that has no limit to how far it can go plus he has a rebuild so I can understand why he has low stats because it evens out his usefulness

[Draco100000]

Balin is very useful, probably one of the best supporters in the game if you can get him leveled, he makes your heros able to take on an entire army because of his runes that he can give out. Not to mention he can save your entire army from certain death with a teleport that has no limit to how far it can go plus he has a rebuild so I can understand why he has low stats because it evens out his usefulness

Camon is 1600 hero how can be this balanced is completely useless in hero vs hero battles cant deal with any enemie hero, is a great disadvantage that have no sense. If all supports of 1000-1400 would have the same stats as him i wouldnt say anything.;( His runes get countdown, a big one so you only can get 1 hero fully runned in lategame, he is very nerfed and he only have 1 usefull abilitie the teleport. I think he just have to get more health, get same stats of a nazgul or as hwaldar/gamling.... He is more expensive than them. He is easily killed and his cost make get him out a trouble if he dies several times because his weakness. This is not fair at all.

[Elite KryPtik]

Well Draco, what I will say is this, I think both sides raise good points, but I also think you are a tiny bit biased. We all know you really like Balin
In any case, what I personally do is just wait to get Balin after I get Thorin and Bofur, Bofur costing the same as Balin, and by this point I usually have Mithril anyways, so it doesn't matter. So for ME, and my playstyle, his stats are fine. That's just me personally.

[Draco100000]

Well Draco, what I will say is this, I think both sides raise good points, but I also think you are a tiny bit biased.

Biased because i use a lot the dwarves?camon i dont care at all if they dont change it, I have seen something strange: a expensive hero with low stats: i thought it was a bug, if it is not ok. But there is no balance argument that can make me change in opinion.

what I personally do...

Well that is your way to play, Balin is support so I think he should be recruited first to start get expirience and be usefull in later stages of the game.
Im not talking at all about how he should be used with his actual stats, im comparing him with other factions and making a reasonable proposal.
Mithril is not an excuse because it is optional, as well the gifts of galadriel or the buffs of the Witchking.

I would say that comparing him to other dwarven heros his abilitie roster is also the weaker.

But that is my opinion the thing that matter is that his stats dont fit with his price and role and something should change.

[Odysseus]

Hello folks, I wanted to suggest something. I find that the Dwarven Stronghold summon is kind of underperforming as it is. Especially the catapults are kind of average and overpriced. I wanted to ask to slightly increase the damage of the catapults on the Fortress and as well as reduce the price of the purchasable catapults on the Fortress to the same level as the catapults you can buy on Fortress Defense Plots, so 1800-> 900-1000-1100ish.

Any thoughts?

[Elite KryPtik]

Hello folks, I wanted to suggest something. I find that the Dwarven Stronghold summon is kind of underperforming as it is. Especially the catapults are kind of average and overpriced. I wanted to ask to slightly increase the damage of the catapults on the Fortress and as well as reduce the price of the purchasable catapults on the Fortress to the same level as the catapults you can buy on Fortress Defense Plots, so 1800-> 900-1000-1100ish.

Any thoughts?

Agree.