New Iron Hills Unique Siege Weapon

[LordDainIronfoot]

I am glad that agreed on that!

I tihnk the "Chain Bolts" will be something more unique and interesting than ordinary Fire Bolts!And to have "Fire Bolts " Upgrade for the Ordinary Bolts and then Upgrade to switch Ammontions wel lseem too much or too OP,or you think we can ahve both!?

Agree there! After all we saw how much DMG the Iron Ballista did to the Elven Ranks killing doznes and throwing even more aside! So I think youare right a Knockback and Smal lArea DMG like 2-3 Soldiers with little DMG on them will be fine or mabe more Soldiers but less DMG ! Yeah aotherwise it seems kinda funny to hit and KNockback a whole Battalion and all to stand like nothing happed

Plus this will add more fro mthe Movie Feeling and Effect that many fans liked,including me,sadly the Anti Arrow Effect is to ocomplicate to make and use in game so we should enjoy ito nly in the Movie!

[korner]

so let me sum up:

you want to replace the catapult (strong against buildings!) against the ballista which will be strong against single units/ multiple units with those damn chains?
IH will therefore lose the ability to do ranged attacks on buildings, as they´d only have the rams... (we do not know how strong/ effective the catapult from Ered Mithrin will be).

Why??

And WHY the hell is it necessary to implement those stupid chains which would make the ballista no ballista anymore?
We talked about the real use of ballistas and even you Lord Dain agreed that it´d be more interesting to have the ballista as a special weapon with a certain purpose/ use:
- monsters
- siege weapons
- clumped units

Why isn´t it possible to keep the catapult and use the ballista either as extra unit (I agree that it´d be imbalanced between the dwarven realms) or as an extension to the dwarven fortress (which I´d like)?

[Maraelion]

I agree with korner. And do not use these nonsense chainbolts.
Greetings
Maraelion

[LordDainIronfoot]

I have no problem with Ballista being Extra Unit!We jsut will ahve to find one for Ered Luin too! Replacing the Catapult is jsut on ofthe options we dicussed! I do not liek Ballista as Castl Defence the whole point of the Ballista is to be Mobile!

The Chains are for the Fans who like them and I am one of them so thats my opinion!Melkor too agreed that we could find a good and realisstic purpose for the Chains!And I gain will say that it is not comepletely unrealistic!

That I agree on something doesnt mean I do not agre on another thing too,which one I like more is another thing! And I personaly like more the idea which we discussed with Melkor no matter being Extra Unit or replacment Unit!

Tha Ballista wiill just have Double Role kinda with the Upgrade!

[korner]

you always want to find "compromise" between "the community" (which is in that case you and most part of english forum which likes all Hobbit movie stuff, ignoring most part of the german community) and the Edain team (who are mostly said not to like those designs).
Those "compromises" are always: implement something you want.

Why can´t we make a compromise which includes that ballista without those stupid chains??
Don´t you see that all the compromises you suggest are getting 100% of your will?
Don´t you se that there are obviously a lot of people who absolutely dislike those chains?
Wouldn´t it then be fair to say: okay we like to see those ballistas, for the sake of a compromise we can live with having the ballistas without those chains?

[LordDainIronfoot]

Are you really trying to turn this peacefull discussion we had till now into a German Community VS English Community~!? The Team always takes decisions based on both Forums the Ram Scout/Cavalry is one example!As if I remember correctly the Scout Unit was suggested by the German Com. while the English(and some German) wanted Ram Riders and here it is the briliant Ram Scout Idea!!

I of course will deffend the idea I liek the most,but it doesnt mean I will not agree or hate an idea which is similar to it but without some things!

I like the Chains and the Ballistas so I found a way with the help of Melkor to use them and not being so "unrealistic" and OP but just usefful and balanced! You like Ballista without the Chains I am fine with that too but ti doesnt mean I will vote for that!

So thats why this decisions lay in the hands of the Team! Will it be Extra UNit or Replacment is up to the Team too,there ae good reasons for both suggestions so we leave it to them!

Do not turn this inot another pintless German VS English "war" about Movie Models on which we stoped disucssing long time ago!

[korner]

Are you really trying to turn this peacefull discussion we had till now into a German Community VS English Community~!?

NO!

I just wonder why especially you ask so often for compromises if something you want does not get implemented immediately while on the other hand you don´t see that compromises are always made by 2 sides and that it´d be kind to say:
"okay I like this ballista 100%, but I do see that other people like this ballista only 90%, so I´ll stand down and agree to a compromise by implementing it 90% to the game."
This is simply how a compromise works.

You can do what you want, but please don´t wine about compromises if you´re not able to agree to/ propose a compromise yourself.

[Gandalf The Gray]

i think the chain idea is awesome

[Der Dunkle König]

I'm completly against implementing these chains. In my opinion they are unrealistic and don't serve a real purpose.
You say that these chains are awesome. But in my opinion that's the problem: They were added to the movie, because they look awesome, just like many other things in the Hobbit movies. But there is no other reason for their existance than that. To look good shouldn't be a reason for adding something to a movie or a mod.

[LordDainIronfoot]

I respect your opinion! :-) But no one said to add them because they are cool and awesome,we found a reasonable idea for them and purpose for Knockback effect! :-)

But you guys again turned it into a Movie Things fight!So I will not bother answering to this thread anymore! :-)

As I said I am fine even without the Chains so any.further discussion will be just pointless Movie fight!

I will be happy to see the Ballista in Mod evven without the Chains so thats it! :-)

Continue the discussion in a direction without the  Chains! :-)

Best regards to all! :-)

[Gandalf The Gray]

the chain is unrealistic he says the flying lizard that breaths fire its ok

[Fredius]

Now now let's calm down a bit everyone.

Korner this is just a discussion topic, Dain is not demanding that he wants those chains into the mod, he just gives ideas about how they COULD be used, but that doesn't mean that the team has to agree with every idea he has. Ofcourse you can disagree with these ideas, but you don't have to call some aspects "stupid". For God's sake they are just chains .

My opinion about the chains is that they certainly are awesome, but I don't think it's possible to include them, because the Engine does not support this. That's why I don't think we will get it anyway, even if the Edain Team wants it.

Now I forgot something very important when I mentioned the historical use of Ballistas. We are talking about giant Iron Ballistas right now, with bolts two times bigger and heavier than the average human being. They are similair to the Isengard Ballistas, who also deal great damage to buildings, so why not give the Iron Hills Ballistas the same amount of power as Isengard? That way we can also replace the Catapult, instead of having two siege weapons with the same function. I played with the Ered Mithrin Catapult and overestimated their strength, they are not particulary strong against buildings, so they are not a good alternative. But I can live with the idea of using Fortress Extention Ballistas, that too sounds awesome.

I'm completly against implementing these chains. In my opinion they are unrealistic and don't serve a real purpose.
You say that these chains are awesome. But in my opinion that's the problem: They were added to the movie, because they look awesome, just like many other things in the Hobbit movies. But there is no other reason for their existance than that. To look good shouldn't be a reason for adding something to a movie or a mod.

Yeah only you forget that at the siege of Helms Deep they added crossbowmen and even Galadhrim, who are not mentioned in the books either, but they "just look awesome". I don't see you complaining about the LOTR movies in that aspect.

[Walküre]

I completely agree with Fredius.
This is a thread meant for discussion, and everyone is supposed to express, in the best way possible, its own ideas, using the most convincing and solid reasons one could.
I'm quite sure that none of us wants another unnecessary fight to take place here, on the Dwarven Section.

The usage of words like 'stupid', 'boring', 'damn' or other similar things is indeed not helpful at all for the sake of a free discussion, with the risk of creating other 'heated scenarios'.
Please, as it was also suggested numerous times in other threads, try to always avoid them; there will surely be other 'effective' and constructive ways to express your own disagreement 

i think the chain idea is awesome

agree. Gandalf should have a buff

Furthermore, what's the point of this?

[Der Dunkle König]

I'm completly against implementing these chains. In my opinion they are unrealistic and don't serve a real purpose.
You say that these chains are awesome. But in my opinion that's the problem: They were added to the movie, because they look awesome, just like many other things in the Hobbit movies. But there is no other reason for their existance than that. To look good shouldn't be a reason for adding something to a movie or a mod.

Yeah only you forget that at the siege of Helms Deep they added crossbowmen and even Galadhrim, who are not mentioned in the books either, but they "just look awesome". I don't see you complaining about the LOTR movies in that aspect.

Sorry, did I ever say anything about the books? The crossbowmen were added to Isengard, because it would have been stupid for the army of Isengard not to have a weapon against the archers on the wall of Helms Deep. In fact, archers and spear-throwers of Isengard were mentioned in the books. They were replaced by crossbowmen to show that Isengard is technologically advanced.
The Galadhrim are a bit more difficult: I think they were added because of dramaturgic reasons. Peter Jackson (or somebody else, I don't know) didn't want the elves to do nothing. They should have their role in the story and not just sit in Lorien and don't care about anything. I don't think that they were added because they look good.

And even if I couldn't convince you about they difference between crossbows/Galadhrim and ballistas: Your argument ist invalid. I could critizise the ballistas for being added because of their appearence and I could do the same with the Galadhrim. How did you know that I like the Galadhrim when you wrote your post? I never said anything about them. I didn't say if I like them now.

the chain is unrealistic he says the flying lizard that breaths fire its ok

When you want to create a fantasy universe, you should define what is possible and what not. As I see ist Tolkien took our world and added magic and dragons and orcs and so on to it. But the laws of physic are still valid. And in my opinion these chain-bolt can't work with these laws.
You could replace the word "realism" with "consistence". In the Lord of the Rings some laws of physics are obviously the same as in our world, so, for example, how can Legolas jump over rocks that are falling down?

[LordDainIronfoot]

Isengard had Ballistas so whats the problem of Dwarves having Ballistas even without the Chain Bolts!?
PJ added Elves for the dramatic effect and to show that Elves actualyl take part in the War for the same reason he could have send Dwarves from Erebor there? But that aside,PJ added the Dwarven Ballistas to show the inovative and engeering thinking and skills of the Dwarves,since as WETA stated Tolkien do not give full and complete discription of the Iron Hilsl Army and Aramement but rather describes a small Contingent of 500 Elite Veterans and I am avsolutely sure those weren't the Main nor the Whole Iron Hills Army,so PJ and WETA decided to create the culture and the army ofthe Iron Hills to its fullet jsut because Tolkien left a gap there!

The use of those Chains is not absolutely and completely impossible!With right engeneering and craftsmanship it is possible but may be with smaller range! But we discussed this long time ago and I do not wish to start over again so as I said in my previous comment lets continue the discussion for how and should be the Ballistas included but without the Chains!?