[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Dwarven Suggestions

New Iron Hills Unique Siege Weapon

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Walküre:

--- Zitat von: Gandalf The Gray am  2. Nov 2015, 03:01 ---

--- Zitat von: korner am  1. Nov 2015, 23:30 ---
--- Zitat von: Gandalf The Gray am  1. Nov 2015, 23:26 ---i think the chain idea is awesome

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agree. Gandalf should have a buff


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--- Zitat ---Furthermore, what's the point of this?

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i think he was mocking the topic i did about gandalf  walk

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Yes, I imagined it.

I deleted the comment.
This kind of behaviour is totally unacceptable.

Fredius:

--- Zitat von: (Palland)Raschi am  2. Nov 2015, 08:48 ---The reason is  as Dunkler König has already mentioned, that there was not presented any Dwarves in the movie  as a living and caring faction.
And by the way; Haldir himself tells the audience and Theoden King why PJ decided to Show them up at Helm's Deep:

"An Alliance once existed between Elves and Men. Long ago we fought and died together. We come to honor that allegiance"

Differently than in the Hobbit movies the developers tried to create a reference within the trilogy itself. The first great battle shown in the first movies is connected events and decisions. The motivation is logical and it is a good way the complete the character of Haldir appeared in the first movie as well. An negativ example in return would Beorns presentation in the Hobbit movies.
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So you think the best way to introduce this caring faction is to let them fight in a siege where they had no business, and at the same time kill a character in a place where he shouldn be present at all? I'm sure they could have introduced the Elves in a different way, and not copy-paste that there was an old allegiance between Men and Elves. You might as well justify the fact that there were Trolls present in the Battle of the Armies movie, because Orcs and Trolls have an "old allegiance" together.


--- Zitat ---Because they knew it is clone war time. Dain had foreseen that Thranduil's clone soldiers would shoot their arrows very porbably at the same time with the same angle and the most exact row you could build with elven clone eroopers. Therfore he could manage to place every ballista in the right distance to the elven army so that arrows and bolts would meet exactly in the air and do not miss each other.
In real wartime Dain just would have sent an ordinary army of dwarves and would not count on elven "clonish" behaviour.

Isengard needs a siege unit therfore their ballistas must do damage to buildings. And because of the fact that there is a good and logical reason for them beeing introduced in the LotR movie they are accepted by most players. The dwarven ballistas do not make any sense at all.
And that is a huge difference between Isengard and the Dwarves using ballistas in the movies.

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You think that "clonish behavior" never happened with archers? The reason that archers shoot their arrows as a unit is because the chance to escape a barrage is smaller than when archers shoot indivually at will. I'm aware of the fact that Ballista chains meeting arrows is not realistic, but I don't see a reason to hate it either; it's just a movie. I just love the fact that they found a way to counter the superior Elven archers, even if it isn't perfectly realistic.

I don't see any reason why the dwarven ballistas don't make sense at all, they are just siege weapons like the Isengard Ballista or the Mordor Catapult. And you forget that the Isengard Ballistas in the movies weren't used against buildings either, but to form a base for the big siege ladders, now THAT is unrealistic.

(Palland)Raschi:
I also stated, that books and movies are different forms of presenting a Story. If you are such a wise Person, tell me, how the Elves should be introduced in the second movies without a greater loss of Screen time and understanding of the ordinary audience ?
What you said about trolls and orcs is absolutely not comparable because there is no story reference.
The Elven Helm's Deep plot has a huge Story reference. It tries to connect events and factions which got a lot of screentime in the first movie.
Those parts do not stand  besides each other incoherently and differently than in the Hobbit Trilogy the connection makes sense and does not thow every bounds to the Tolkien world and books away (like f.e. the Angmar-Erebor Plot Connection does).



--- Zitat ---You think that "clonish behavior" never happened with archers? The reason that archers shoot their arrows as a unit is because the chance to escape a barrage is smaller than when archers shoot indivually at will. I'm aware of the fact that Ballista chains meeting arrows is not realistic, but I don't see a reason to hate it either; it's just a movie. I just love the fact that they found a way to counter the superior Elven archers, even if it isn't perfectly realistic.
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Everything Thranduils clones do is synchronous: Marching, Standing, reloading and firing arrows. NO Group of archers look and act like this. Watch "clout Shooting" Videos and you will realize this. Differntly than in Lotr where you do see that Elves are acted by real People and that they do not have this Kind of moving and acting.
There is a difference between disciplined acting and artifical synchronous acting.
It is not about hating, but inconsistency.

LordDainIronfoot:
I enjoyed the Elves at Helms Deep but I would have been more happy if Rohan dealt with the Battle on their own like in the Movie with reinforcments from Erkebrand in the end and etc. but I am fien with the Elves too! :)

The Clone Behaivour is to show that the Elves are not Human but much mroe "perfected" beings with unnatural capabilities and skills honed with thousands of years fo expirience and thraining thats why I am fien with their Movement,plus they al lrelease the Arrows on Command so they do not fly perfectly in synchron but very close to it!
With the same Logic can you explain how the Elves at Helms Deep Fire like Walkign Machine Guns with Arrows and even how can the be so accurate like those behind the Walls and hwo they later hitted al lthe Uruc Hai in the ehads!?They are Elves thats why they are not simple Humans! :)

But I really think we go way out of topic so please guys lets return on the main issue at hand about how and why shold be the Ballista used and without the Chains! :)

Greetings! :)

(Palland)Raschi:

--- Zitat ---With the same Logic can you explain how the Elves at Helms Deep Fire like Walkign Machine Guns with Arrows and even how can the be so accurate like those behind the Walls and hwo they later hitted al lthe Uruc Hai in the ehads!?They are Elves thats why they are not simple Humans!
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There is a difference between disciplined acting and artifical synchronous acting.
In Lotr they were mostly actors therefore you saw (minor but significant) discrepencies.

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