[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Lothlorien Suggestions
Ents
The_Necromancer0:
I made this it's own thread because since it's been discussed a lot so it would be nice if we kept it all here to make sure that it's easy to see where the argument is at.
The general agreement is that Ents are too weak. I've tested Ents both with and against them and I have to say that I agree, it becomes way too easy late game to take an Ent down before it reaches anything worthwhile destroying. I've got a couple suggestions for that, which I will classify according to what I think of them
1.Most Boring But Probably Most Effective
Stat boost. While this really doesn't add anything unique to the game system it is probably the most effective way to make the Ents stronger. A simple defense boost along with maybe a bigger resistance to anything that's not fire could help. This can be further tweaked easily without taking out anything.
2. Quite Interesting But Doesn't Help Much
BFME1 Entmoot. The thing that I really liked about the BFME 1 Entmoot is that it wasn't being "built" it was already ready and the "build" time was actually a bunch of Ents debating whether or not to go to war.
The really unique detail though was that if the Entmoot was attacked during that time the Ents would immediately cease to debate and decide to attack. You could get an shortened build time on your Entmoot and in addition, whether or not it was attacked, you got 4 ent on a timer.
While this solution doesn't help much with the overall weakness of the Ents, it's really something that I found great about BFME1 and I think it would be worthwhile to add to the mod.
EDIT: Impossible due to game mechanics
3. Helps And Is Interesting But No Very Unique
The Last March of The Ents (bis). While this is already being used for Rohan I do think it would be the best way to allow a temp boost of all Ents during a rush. It can be named something else like Entish Rage or something. Simply enough it's an ability for Treebeard (he's got one palantir spot left) in which the Ent gain a temporary resistance to all type of weapons, and a speed increase similar to when they are in rage.
4. Also Unique But Not Very Useful
Ent Draught, it could be used as either a very large or map-wide Ent heal ability. Either it can be a one time thing or with a very long cooldown depending on what the Team feels is more appropriate. This would doze any fire and restore Ents in range to full health along with a small temporary armor boost. While this doesn't fix the problem of the individual Ent weakness it could be used to support Ents during a rush.
5. From Crimson King
Huorn Sentry
750 gold
Places two Huorn sentries that patrol the periphery of the Entmoot. Huorns are able to damage nearby enemy units but cannot stray too far from their roots. Huorns are able to stealth automatically when not engaging in combat.
[reasoning]Huorns are an interesting and often overlooked "community" in Fangorn. Their violent nature contrasts with their daily tree-like behaviour. They are the "sentries" of Fangorn, killing any that dare trespass with the Ents' approval. It is said they are able to cloak in shadow, which I thought would be a neat addition in the form of stealth. If they are killed the respawning time should be unusually long as well.
Opinions so far
Sir Stig #4:
-put out fire
-+1/2 health
-temp invulnerability
Elite KryPtik #4 & #3:
-quickbeam: ent draught
-treebeard: temp boost
Odysseus #1
-arrow resistance
Crimson King #4 & #5
-Draught: affects all units not just ents
Khamul Der Sehende #5
-
WarOfTheRingVeteran #5
-make Huorns creep so they attack all non-ent
CragLord #5
-
Well those are my various suggestions for the Ent problem. Fee free to comment and add your own suggestions xD
____________________________________________________________________
Huorn Sentry Proposal
1.Abilities & Stances
Huorns would be protecting the Entmoot. They would have three different stances that allow them to impact differently the gameplay according to the player's strategy:
--- Zitat von: The_Necromancer0 am 16. Nov 2015, 12:17 ---
1. Stances
a. Defensive Stance
The Huorns gather around the Entmoot and "root" themselves (become immobile) from that point on they give out a large poison aura (similar to Dol Goldur but on a larger area). This improves their defense greatly but their attack is heavily diminished. The animation could be little roots coming out of the ground
--- Zitat von: CragLord am 16. Nov 2015, 15:10 ---
--- Ende Zitat ---
b.Normal Stance
The Huorns patrol around the Entmoot but don't leave it. When they only attack if attacked (could fix the whole attack all units imbalance). They use roots that they use to hit enemies at a range (archer range) by travelling underground.
c. Aggressive Stance
The Huorns attack all units that come within range of the Entmoot (has to be Entmoot). They go up to the enemy and kill the battalion. They have to behave like creeps even though that would also reduce their power. Aggressive Stance should grant them a 50% attack boost but no defense nerf.
--- Ende Zitat ---
They would also have the following abilities to incorporate Old Man Willow as the "leader" of the Huorn patrol.
--- Zitat von: The_Necromancer0 am 16. Nov 2015, 12:17 ---2. Abilities
a. Old Man Willow's Song
Units in the nearby area to the Entmoot are put to "sleep" (immobilized), this is similar to the spell book but it might need some uniqueness setting like a small life drain similar to being swallowed by the roots.
b. Ent Draught
Old Man Willow lets loose Ent Draught healing nearby friendly troops and Huorns. This will help strengthen the Huorns.
--- Ende Zitat ---
The Stances would use those images:
--- Zitat von: CragLord am 16. Nov 2015, 15:10 ---For Defensive Stance I suggest this one:
It is correlated with roots and poision damage hourn does in this stance.
For Normal Stance I have found this one:
Standard tree for standard stance. :)
And for Aggressive Stance I have found this one:
Attacking roots, I think this fits 100% to nature of stance. :)
--- Ende Zitat ---
The Palantir would be the looking something like this (To CragLord: I've fixed it):
1. Defensive Stance
2.Normal Stance
3.Aggressive Stance
4. Ent Draught
5. Old Man Willow's Song
2.Animations and Skin
We were thinking of basing the animation off the spider attack but with an tree skin as seen below:
3.Sounds
CragLord has stated that he will "dig up something" for the sounds when the time comes, so no worries on that side.
4.Remaining Question/Issues
a.Should Huorns attack all units (allies and enemies) to be more lore accurate?
b.Is the incorporation of Old Man Willow's song not unique enough?
I will edit this as need be.
Ealendril der Dunkle:
--- Zitat ---BFME1 Entmoot. The thing that I really liked about the BFME 1 Entmoot is that it wasn't being "built" it was already ready and the "build" time was actually a bunch of Ents debating whether or not to go to war.
The really unique detail though was that if the Entmoot was attacked during that time the Ents would immediately cease to debate and decide to attack. You could get an shortened build time on your Entmoot and in addition, whether or not it was attacked, you got 4 ent on a timer.
While this solution doesn't help much with the overall weakness of the Ents, it's really something that I found great about BFME1 and I think it would be worthwhile to add to the mod.
--- Ende Zitat ---
We've already tried to implement this system, but it didnt worked. There are some missing definitions in BfmeII, so it would work only with bugs.
Sir_Stig:
The ent heal might be good, a full heal might be a bit much but at least something that puts out fire and gives half health back, along with maybe a short fire invulnerability could be interesting.
The_Necromancer0:
I will post on the OP the opinions of people to give newcomers a feel of the debate, works like a poll except you're forced to debate and discuss.
Elite KryPtik:
I agree it should be ability oriented, that way Ents could still be killable when Treebeard is not leading them. Additionally, you've forgotten about Quickbeam. We could even potentially have both of these, the Last March of the Ents for Treebeard and Ent Draught for Quickbeam, to increase both of their usage. I would not say that this is overpowered due to how expensive ents are, being able to give a map-wide stat boost and heal is a perfect idea.
Also, any changes made to the Lothlorien Ents also need to be added to Rohans summon, which is currently far too weak.
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