[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Lothlorien Suggestions

Aesthetic Improvements for Lothlórien/Mirkwood

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CragLord:
Hello everyone,

Encouraged by idea of my previous topic from Dwarven suggestion board, I have finally decided to open this topic in Lothlórien section.
I am opening this topic because I expect a lot of lore discussion (I hope good one) about suggestions which will be proposed here, reasons why we should implement them in game etc. That is main reason why I want to separate it from "Brief Lothlórien Suggestions" thread. So in general, this will be a topic for "Lore wise" suggestions in the most cases which will be followed by good lore discussion and "rich" info content. I don't say that suggestions on Brief Lothlórien Suggestions topic are not lore wise or similar, just want to make difference between instant suggestion thought and longer prepared suggestions with solid lore analysis as base.
I presume that the most of suggestions will be graphically oriented details or complete new graphical proposals which are lore justified etc. 

Because of preview, I will orderly update topic with already discussed suggestions which will be collected on main page, while discussion matters will be included in other comments in topic bellow.

I politely ask companions of Edain to join me on this topic and share their thoughts. :) 

Best Regards,
Crag



List of Suggestions:


Visual and name change for this tier one power.
Integrate in this current change:


Official Lothlorien Herald Horn look instead of dwarven random symbol:


And rename power to some more lore accurate name:
"Lothlórien Heraldic Horn" or "Lothlórien Horn" or "Horn of Galadhrim".

Source image: http://postimg.org/image/y6awr9vz7/full/

Also one more graphics I find really fitting, maybe the best so far concerning this suggestion, is this one:


I really find only horn really fitting because of its elegant shape, it is so fitting in my opinion for "sophisticated" elves, in this case Telerin kind which is famous for love of music in general. And with those notes, I personally think it is much better then current dwarven symbol.

Source image: http://s5.postimg.org/h7b53hzj9/Horn_Notes_Source.png
Note source image: http://s5.postimg.org/vvm1ekzzb/notes.jpg

Here is "first" finished "prototype" :



First of all, I think that current button set is good, but it is not correlated in consistency terms with current look of Grimbeorn in game. Because of that I have tried to create new set which corresponds to Grimbeorn better in my opinion.
As Grimbeorn have been presented as "gray" oriented in color of bear and hair, I found some buttons a bit out of place.
Let's take a look of current  of Human and bear form:


So, I will start from first button, it is button for Human form/Bear form. Currently Grimbeorn is using these two buttons for this palantir slot:


First, bear form look isn't correlated to Grimbeorn's bear form. Current one fits to Beoringer bear form in color terms. Second, Human form button also isn't correlated to Grimbeorn at all. It is Beorn human form button. So, I have prepared next buttons for this palanitir slot,
For Bear form I have prepared this one:



Grimbeorn's Bear form palantir button

Button 65x65
This look corresponds to gray haired bear form of Grimbeorn. I tried to find some "fierce" bear look simply because "Grimbeorn" means "Fierce bear".


For human form I have prepared next one:



Grimbeorn's Human form palantir button

Button 65x65

I really find's current human form button out of place. It is correlated to Beorn's game look. Grimbeorn as unique hero and character deserves new one which is more correlated to his current look. I have tried to use some shotcuts from game, but sadly I couldn't create good button. I think this proposed one is decent, and it corresponds in color term very nicely to current game look. There is gray color of beard and hair as brown color of tunic which Grimbeorn wear in game currently.


Now, to take a look on Deadly Bite button in game:



Again, I found a color dismatch here. Button is really good, but Grimbeorn is gray bear not brown one.
So I have just tried to improve that.

For Deadly Bite button I have prepared this one:



Grimbeorn's Deadly Bite palantir button

Button 65x65

And for the last button, War Cry one.
Currently in game this button is same for Grimbeorn and Beorn. Current one is this:



No matter how much epic is that german chief from Gladiator movie xD, I really find this picture is color terms a bit out of place for "Gray" Grimbeorn.
So I have tried to find some picture which is similar to current one, but more corresponding in color terms. I think I have found a good one, which correpsonds to Grimbeorns better in color terms:



Grimbeorn's Battle Cry palantir button

Button 65x65
This picture is more correlated to Old Fierce Grimbeorn then a current one. They are similar, but first one because of Black color and beard is more correlated to Beorn's lore description. This button maybe looks a bit different then Grimbeorn in game currently, but I think it fits nicely to nature of ability which is battle cry, and beside that it fit in color term nicely to Grimbeorn description.


Concerning palantir portrait and selective button, I have found them really unique and cool, so I haven't change them. Maybe some minor change which could be applied to them is to make bear side more gray in color. Simply small consistency change. :)

New graphics for look of casting area of power:
 


or this one:

CragLord:
    I felt free to post new comment now as first official proposal on this topic and first one need to have regular space for suggestion list.
   
    So as my first official suggestion, I will start with Lothlórien's tier one power: Horn of Ñoldor.
First what I really found inappropriate was look of area effect in game.
That is white circle with some (I think it is dwarven) strange symbol. It is not so common for elves.:)


So, I tried to find some appropriate "Horn" look for this visual effect, and I have found few good candidates but all of them were just "horns". Wooden horns, Cow looking horns, metal horns... Simply Elves are sophisticated beings and it was always strange to me that elf is able to use that kind of horn as regular war "gadget". They are more sophisticated then using animal horns similar to Rohan's one or even Gondor's "sophisticated" one. So I continue with my further search and I found one horn which is perfect in my opinion. It is official Lothlórien's horn model from Weta workshop which is used during during shooting Lord of the Rings:

Source link: http://scrapbook.theonering.net/scrapbook/movies/characters/celeborn/view/8568

It is official Lothlórien Heraldic Horn, and I think it is perfect candidate for integration in that visual area effect in game.


As you can see from that source picture, it is in same locker with other offical Lothlórien items such as Celeborn's Necklace, Celeborn's Crown, Galadriel's Crown and Nenya etc. So I recommended this horn as official horn in that area look. No matter for team decision I have processed it and prepared it in form for integration:

Link: http://postimg.org/image/y6awr9vz7/full/

Also what is nice to notice on that picture is official small banner of Lothlórien ruling house which is attached to horn, or to be precise probably Galadriel banner. Official standard of Galadriel is on that banner. I think it is one more reason to implement it in game in this way. :)


that standard already exist in game on official Lothlórien banner but in a bit different color:


Now to my second part concerning changes of this power, I have to suggest that we change title of it. Simply Horn of Ñoldor is not lore accurate. I mean, in my opinion.
Simply Elves which inhabit Golden woods of Lothlórien are not Ñoldors. They are almost completely Telerin Elves. The Galadhrim or the Tree-people were the Elves, mostly Silvan in origin, who inhabited the woods of Lothlórien. Or to be accurate they are mix of Silvan Elves and Nandors.

Official link: http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Galadhrim

For "Division of the Elves" check this link: http://elvenesse.net/elves/elves.php

So in general there is no link between them and Ñoldors, except fact that Galadriel is Ñoldor in origin, and probably only true Ñoldor between them. Because of their origin and history facts (they never was in true alliance with Ñoldor, during second age and battle  Battle of Dagorlad they never fought with Ñoldors, they were always with their Mirkwood cousins. In other words, they cared about history, origin etc), I recommend that we change title of power from current Horn of Ñoldor to something like "Horn of Galadhrim" or "Lothlórien Horn" or "Lothlórien Heraldic Horn" etc
Simply Elves of Lothlórien will probably get more inspired in battle if they hear some of their own horn then Ñoldor one, no matter their leader is Ñoldor.

So, what do you think about this suggestion? :)

Best regards,
CragLord

Adamin:
But since Galadriel is a Noldor, wouldn't that mean for the Power that the Horn is ordered by Galadriel and works as her herald?

Also the geometric symbol fits quite well to the name, after all the Noldor were very dwarf-like in their crafts and thoughts.

Odysseus:
Pretty much agree. Accurate and well-reasoned, as is often the case with your suggestions.

CragLord:

--- Zitat von: Adamin am 29. Nov 2015, 22:54 ---But since Galadriel is a Noldor, wouldn't that mean for the Power that the Horn is ordered by Galadriel and works as her herald?

Also the geometric symbol fits quite well to the name, after all the Noldor were very dwarf-like in their crafts and thoughts.

--- Ende Zitat ---

Concerning your first part of comment,
I can see, we probably can watch on this in way you described. In same way, Galadriel is Ñoldor, but that doesn't mean that her personal sound or "herald" should be Ñoldor's Horn. At fist place in this situation, she is holy leader of Lothlorien, in that term, her herald is probably Lothlorien horn. :)  But simply I think that name Horn of Ñoldor doesn't fit from many aspects. First origin, there is a lot of lore facts for those Telerin Elves wouldn't use official Ñoldor horn as their own. It is matter of their identity etc. If it is described as Horn of Ñoldor then it is Ñoldor horn...
Would they find that horn as more inspirational sound, no matter it is " Ñoldorin herald" of their lady instead some of their own? Someone which defines their identety long before Galadriel started to be one of their leaders?
Second, "history lore facts" they never liked Ñoldors in some special way and they never had any special contact with them. They just have Galadriel as their "holy" leader, while their main military/strategy leader is Celeborn, who is of Sindarin ancestry. I just want to say, I have suggested visual change, but firstly I wanted to change title of power. Visual proposal followed and I thought I have found perfect change because if it official stuff from movies and weta.
Simply those Galadrim Elves have their own marks no matter about Galadriel "spiritual" influence on them.  She is only link between them and Ñoldors. But that is not reason to power of faction should be called Horn of Ñoldor.
Simply name "Horn of Ñoldor" is too official and too general for faction which is not Ñoldorin in origin or any other way. And I hardly propose change of name of this power because of that. Ñoldor oriented faction will be Imladris, in history, origin and all other terms. So this name could be translated there in some way.

I mean, we could watch it also as "herald" of Ñoldorin princess, but also in that case, not matter she is Ñoldor, I really find current name too general for Sindarin faction in origin which has complete history correlated in Telerin term. Simply in that situation we can call it "Galadriel Heraldic Horn" or something similar but not Horn of Ñoldor, it is too general for Galadrim Elves. I hope you understand core of this proposal from my aspect. :)

Second, concerning your statement about visual change. Current one is dwarven, and personally I presume like the most of users, I don't know what that symbol presents. I agree Ñoldors and Dwarves are very similar in their crafts, but is that really reason for "Ñoldor named power" to have dwarven graphics or visual effect correlated in that way. I know dwarves build their letters from Ñoldor's one, and that runes are in origin Tengwar Ñoldorin, but again, I really don't see  dwarven graphic element to fit into Ñoldor power area look etc.
Simply using look of letters of Tengwar Ñoldor as secondary picture effect and some other elementary things related to Ñoldors (their weapons, armour, anvil (correlated with their craft) etc) we could make very fitting graphics for the most of Ñoldor powers from power meni, which will have sense. :)
But using dwarven graphics made by non lore related "vanila" game (in some ways) I am honesty against such things. With some creative ideas we could make much better for Ñoldorin Elves, but that is matter for some other time, now we are speaking about Lothlorien (And we have enough places where we use that dwarven graphic symbol in correlated dwarven palantir, so it is not eliminated at all :) ).

Now concerning my proposal, the most accurate name (with current description of power) is "Lothlórien Heraldic Horn" or "Lothlórien Horn". New look which is more sophisticated in design to the elves and it brings that elven touch. They  were not using animals horns etc.
But also interesting thing is that with that small banner (with Galadriel personal standard on it) look is perfect in my opinion. It is symbol of their "holy" leader, but it is oriented to Lothlórien not to Ñoldorin side of her personality (she is daughter of Finarfin, and that house have totally different sign), because of that I think that horn as new area look will be great. Standard already exist on unit banner in game, as I have pointed out. I think Galadriel started using this standard when she (with Celeborn) replaced Amroth as leader of Lothlorien. Because of that I think that new visual is totally fits this power, it is totally oriented for Lothlorien. :)

P.S.1. That is also official name of that horn in movie. Check source link, zoom picture on bottom. :)

P.S.2. In movies there was serious "lapsus" with those sounds, I meant why they used same sounds in general for elves(Rivendel and Lothlórien while for istance Mirkwood get new one). That reflected on this game also. PJ created fictional scene in second lotr movie and there we first time hear Lothrorien horn and after that we know it as Elven horn or to be precise Lothlórien horn. In hobbit it is also used for Ñoldor soldiers so I presume because of that you have also named this power in current way (and Galadriel ancestry was one more thing for that name).
Ñoldor horn and Lothlórien horn should be different sounds. But that is became to official as recognizable sign, so there is no point of discussing about sound change. But in difference of that (as we are shortened by one sound in movie), we should point on those difference between Rivendel and Lothlórien faction as mostly Ñoldorin and Telerin origin in places where we could. :) And this small change is one of those places where we can point this out. :)
And I think it is lore wise. :)


--- Zitat von: Odysseus am 29. Nov 2015, 22:55 ---Pretty much agree. Accurate and well-reasoned, as is often the case with your suggestions.

--- Ende Zitat ---

Thanks man. :)

Best Regards,
CragLord

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