'Dwarvish Windlance' upgrade for the Laketown Town Hall

[ThorinsNemesis]

Hi everyone
I want to propose an idea I came up with, I think it will be an interesting addition to this awesome mod  .
In the Hobbit movies (AUJ and DOS) we see Girion using a Dwarf-made Windlance trying to kill Smaug, together with the Black Arrows; and in DOS we see the Windlance salvaged and placed on the roof of Laketown's Town Hall. The Windlance is a movie-creation, but in my opinion its concept and design are very well made. So I thought about an addition to the Laketown outpost:
Maybe you can make an upgrade for the Town Hall named 'A Dwarvish Windlance', it can say something like 'Constructs a Dwarf-made Windlance which can be used by Bard to fire his Black Arrow'. This upgrade can construct the Windlance tower from DOS (http://i.imgur.com/GlC2cPh.jpg) onto the Town Hall; without building it the player cannot use Bard's 'Black Arrow' ability. When the Windlance tower is constructed Bard can enter it and appear on top of it (similar to the system with Saruman), holding the Windlance. Then he can fire the Black Arrow from there; after that he must recollect it to use it again, as it is now.
I really like the Windlance and the Black Arrow's design and concept in the movies, so I hope the Team can include them in the mod

[CragLord]

Sincerely, I haven't any modeling experience, but making windlance as model and making of animations which corresponds to it is probably hard work.
I also had this idea some time ago on my mind, but probably because of some "layman's instinct" about modeling, I have abadon idea of posting it...
No matter of that, I will try to give my feedback on this topic.   

For start, that windlance really looks amazing.

I agree with you about concept of dwarven windlance, it is dwarven (impoved balista concept) contrivance oriented for air defence (and it could be used to shoot on monster or untits on the ground from some high position). So I presume that main idea and concept in movie was as anti dragon weapon. I find that concept pretty cool, and maybe we could suggest it in some smart way for this mod.
Concening your suggestion that it is just upgrade for Lake Town, well, I don't see reason not to be in Dale also?
And concering Catapult upgrade in Ered Mithrin, I have always found that one as inappropriate uprage for dragon slayers. Simply dragon slayers are using some piersing objects for slaying those monsters, not some flaming rocks. It is matter of consistency in my opinion.
Idea about hero controlling windlace sound interesting, but I am more for windlance model which has integrated unit which controls it.
I would suggest that as anti dragon and anti air mechanisam with limited number of shots (something like in movie) , and after that some greater CD.
Upgrade to be oriented to air (not ground, or both...) and be upgrade which will do very nice damage against air untis (Dragons, Smaug, Eagles, Fellbeast etc), but limited shoots.
About implementation in game, concerning Ered Mithrin, I was thinking that new Dwarven windlance should just replace catapult on its place, on top of building.
It is similar stuff, Catapult have one shot with aoe effect and great cd, windlance could have few single target shots with also great cd after last in row.
Concering dame upgrade look, it could be visual upgrade for watch tower.
So on watch tower:

http://postimg.org/image/94mm31an7/full/

to install this part from movie when we research that upgrade:

and on the top of it, new dwarven windlance:

Similar upgrade (oriented in architecture) for Dale.
Those were some "rough" thoughts of mine.

Regards,
CragLord

[ThorinsNemesis]

Well, I had an idea about including the Windlance in Dale also, but I didn't see it fitting cus Dale's central building is the Marketplace, and I didn't see how the Windlance could be added to it; but maybe it could be added to the Defensive tower of Dale?
And actually your idea about an integrated unit which controls the Windlance sounds interesting; and I like your idea of the Windlance replacing the catapult of Ered Mithrin - that actually sounds the most fitting idea of implementing the Windlance  . In any case, I really like the Windlance, and I hope the Team finds any of our suggestions useful for implementing the Windlance  .

[CragLord]

Well, I had an idea about including the Windlance in Dale also, but I didn't see it fitting cus Dale's central building is the Marketplace, and I didn't see how the Windlance could be added to it; but maybe it could be added to the Defensive tower of Dale?
And actually your idea about an integrated unit which controls the Windlance sounds interesting; and I like your idea of the Windlance replacing the catapult of Ered Mithrin - that actually sounds the most fitting idea of implementing the Windlance  . In any case, I really like the Windlance, and I hope the Team finds any of our suggestions useful for implementing the Windlance  .

In my opinion, if windlance will be implemented in game, then it sould be avaliable for all dwarven factions. Maybe as defensive upgrade at castle wall or like defensive upgrade for expansions like Lake Town, Dale and Ered Mithrin.
Concerning Dale, I was thinking in same way as for Lake Town, it is some visual upgrade for watch tower. Simply when we research it, watch tower gain new part on top of it, in "rough" words. I agree there is no smart way to integrate it in central building.
My idea for integrated unit was pretty expect one, simply because I haven't seen still some catapult or balista in game which could be controled by hero. Or to be precise that hero could enter in that siege and control it. In game we have catapults and balistas as wall expansions and all of them have already integrated soldier as part of whole unit.
About Ered Mithrin, I think that because of "nature" of that expansion and its concept, windlance as dragon slaying machine has advantage over catapult. Simple in my eyes.
If drakes and dragons are known as tough monsters with tough skin so some piercing objects or projectile are needed for their slaying, not some AOE flaming rocks. It is consistency of concept in my opinion.

Regards,
CragLord

[ThorinsNemesis]

Actually Windlance upgrade for castle walls is not a bad idea.  And also, you're right, I also think that a Windlance could be more successful against a dragon than a catapult  .
Though, if the Windlance could be implemented for all Dwarven subfactions, I think your idea would be the most fitting: a visual upgrade for the Laketown and Dale watch towers, and replacing the catapult as an upgrade for the Ered Mithrin building. 

[CragLord]

And I have forgot to say, I wanted to suggest windlance projectile model should be same as visual effect as Bard's black arrow.
So few "black" shoots from windlance and after that some decent longer CD. 

Regards,
CragLord

[ThorinsNemesis]

Actually, I was thinking that maybe the Windlance could fire Black Arrows with a different model/closer to the ones in the movies?

[CragLord]

That would probably be the best projectile models.
Just if that isn't possible, then those black animated from Bard's ability could be also nice for usage.

Regards,
Crag

[ThorinsNemesis]

Yeah you're right again; I just hope that a movie-like Black Arrow projectile model is possible .

I hope the Team considers implementing this idea, I would really like to see the Windlance in Edain  .

[Spacetyrant93]

Late I am, but I wanted to compliment you people. All excellent ideas here. The windlance would really improve the defense in all the Dwarven outposts , as it makes sense they would try and help their allies defend themselves against incoming overwhelming threats, and as Smaug demonstrated, rocks don't do so well against Dragons (if the torn gates and columns of Erebor have any say in it).
For how i see it, the Windlance would practically be not too different from an Isengard Ballista on a tower, that way the basic attack is the same against ground units. But against monters, it may have a limited/slow-recharging ability that deals monstrous damage to such single targets, much like Bard in the end.

I really do like this idea of yours people, I really hope the Team considers it

[LordDainIronfoot]

Now I am sorry for being so late but I have been taken into some personal problems and was quite absent from MU ,but for now things have settled and I saw this awesome idea! :-)

I have discussed similar thing with CragLord several times personally and I just can't see a way not tp agree! :-) I like and fully support the idea! :-)

I have always liked the unique idea for such a Weapon from the Movies and thought it.could be great addition to the Game !

I have also oftenly thought to myself about the Great Catapult in Ered Mithrin and I must say that I didn't found it so logical from the perspective that Ered Mithrin is like Anti-Monster Outpost and it should have something which is supposed to be Strong against Monsters and Catapult never seemed like such a Weapon considering Ered Mithrin as Crag said fought mainly against Drakes a Dragon Like creatures with Tough Skin.But I think that since we can assume that the Windlance originate from Ered Mithrin where Dwarves were constantly bothered by Drakes and when they got to Erebor they gave one to Dale for Extra Protection so basically I think Ered Mithrin Windlance should be somehow bigger or with slightly different design may be!? :-)

And I think the Black Arrow may be should be like Ability that can be used only against Flying Monsters like Dragon,Eagle,Nazgul and may be Drakes but aside from them it could fire some more ordinary Bolts which will be stronger against Trolls and such!?What you guys think!? :-)

So yes I supprt the idea and think it will enrich the Game and the Mod and will make Dwarves more Unique in its own way!

Greetings! :-)

[ThorinsNemesis]

I am very happy that you guys like the idea

Personally I'd love to see the Windlance in Edain, as you said replacing the catapult; you definitely have a point on the catapult not being a relevant weapon against dragons. And, Dain, I agree with your suggestion about the Black Arrow ability and the bolts. And my logic behind the appearance of a Windlance in Dale was the same theory as you, that it was made by the Ered Mithrin Dwarves!

[Spacetyrant93]

What's not to like about having a giantic, Dwarf-made, Dragon-killing crossbow? XD

Yes, having it work as Isengard's ballista should be fine, except maybe very little damage against buildings (if the occasion arises) and siege weapons, as it is basically a harpoon meant for beasts, not for siege like Isengard's bolts.
Then I'd say increased damage against single targets, especially monsters, but also heroes (a harpoon through the chest's never a good thing, regardless of whose's chest it is). And as said before I agree with the ability Black Arrow for flying monsters. It should do a great amount of damage, so arrows can finish the job.

The Ered Mithrin theory makes sense, after all the Withered Heath is not that much far from Erebor and Dale, and could be that the outposts of the Dragonslayers had been enough to keep Dragons in check for a while, but they made the Wind Lance just in case, thus why there were only a few Black Arrows, the danger was not perceived.

[LordDainIronfoot]

Another thing about the Black Arrow Ability may be that it can have Chance of Hitting,I mean we saw how hard is to Shoot a Dragon same goes for Nazguls and Eagles,so basically it can be like this!After you activate the Ability you get 3-4 Shots because the Arrows are Limited and you have like 50/50 Chance of hiting or missing barely ot even 60/40%  and if Hits it does really great amount of DMG but if it miss barely it deals half of the DMG or even less ! :-) And when the Ability Reloads you hace Normal Steel Bolts which have good DMG against all type of Monsters!? :-) What you think mates!? :-)

I am glad you guys like the Ered Mithrin Theory! :-)

Greetings!

[Spacetyrant93]

I think it's awesome! I thought it would be kind of too complex to add, but since you suggested it, I'm all for it!

To think I didn't know of them until Edain told us of the update XD