[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Rohan Suggestions

Rohan Late Game Improvement Ideas

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Hamanathnath:
Honestly, wanted to post on this thread long time before now, but this topic really made my head spin  [uglybunti]

There is so much to go over when it comes to Rohan Balance.  The amount of factors that affect it really made this a hard topic to talk about.  But I agree with most of the concerns of Rohan's late game, so I'll try my best to answer the question at stake here.  What exactly is wrong with Rohan's late game, and how can it be fixed?  Grab some popcorn.

I think that everyone can agree that early game is fine for Rohan, so I won't cover it.

So here are the major factors that effect the majority of Rohan's late game.

1.  Economy:  I think that Kry is being a little harsh when saying Rohan easily has the worst economy, I would say Lothlorien is pretty close.  But looking past that, it is hard to make money late game as Rohan.  Most likely you have already uncorrupted Theoden at this point, and because of that, you really only have the normal game mechanics to rely on to make money.  Your only option is to get Eomer to level, and kill a lot of enemies because people near him get resources everytime they get a kill.  The problem is by late game it is hard to kill enemies because this is where people start to get their really strong armies together.  Another major factor to this is that Rohan can't reduce the cost of their upgrades, while every other faction can.  This means that Rohan is most likely paying the most for their upgrades, besides maybe Lothlorien.  And because of the lack of money you are getting, you can't upgrade your troops quickly. 

Well first off, I recommend letting Rohan reduce the cost of their upgrades.  The best way to do this would be to make is so it is based of the amount of Armouries (-15% for 2 Armouries, -30% for 3 Armouries).  And to make is a bit more appealing to get more then 1 Armoury, maybe make it also reduce the cost of siege by the same amount.  But our problems don't stop there. 

From what I know, Rohan's economy in lore is mainly based off Farming.  I think that Rohan should get some boost to how much money farms make.  I always found it kind a weird that Gondor get the Grand Harvest, yet Rohan doesn't.  Gondor's economy is really based of trading and crafting materials.  It never made sense to me why the Gondor Marketplace could effect farming because of this. 

So I would recommend giving Rohan the Grand Harvest instead of Gondor.  Make it purchasable at the Citadel, but only when Theoden is Free from Corruption.  This would make sense because when he is Corrupted, he would be more focused on making money for himself, which Cruel Taxes shows very well.  But when free, Theoden think about his people more then himself.  Take this line from the movies.  "Crops will be re sowed.  Homes rebuilt."  I really hope people like this idea.

Well thats the economy :P  Next.

2.  Pikes:  oh boy. Argueably the the biggest problem with Rohan's late game is how they handle pikes.  I am glad that some changes have been made to make it easier for Rohan, but the problem is still a big one.  The problem here is that because Rohan is a cavalry based faction, which have problems with pikes, it makes Rohan very hard to play if your opponent spams pikes.  Your only counters to pikes, being peasants and Horse Archers, are too weak late game and can't kill fully upgraded pikes armies respectively. 

So what do you do when your opponent starts spamming ugraded elite pikes?  Their really isn't much you can do unfortunately. :(  While Royal Guard can kill a lone pikemen group because of their new ability, this does not help them at all against larger groups of pikes because they slow down too fast.  They should have lower deceleration then normal riders. 
The really only option against Large amounts of pikes is Horse Archers, but they can't take down an entire army of pikes, unfortunately.

So how can this be fixed?  Sadly this problem is too big for a "just do this" type of answer.  The amount of factors that have an effect on it are huge.  Hopefully other benefits to Rohan, such as a better economy and stronger spear throwers, might help ease this problem. 

I kinda think that Royal Bred Horses should be a passive that Rohan gets automatically, and what should replace it would make specifically Rohan's heroes better while mounted.  Because I don't agree on making armies stronger with a passive Spellbook power is a good idea. 

And the Galadhrim Summon could be stronger too.  Make those elves upgraded and it would be much better.

There is more I want to talk about, but hopefully I've gotten the main points across.  (In other words, I need sleep and will continue tomorrow ;) )

Great to see some concern in this topic.  Keep it up.   ;)

Fine:
The problem with Rohan and pikes is well-known.
If you enable the rohirric cavalry to deal with or even easily defeat pikes, they cannot be countered anymore.
If Rohan cannot counter pikes effectively, their cavalry becomes useless.
So how do we find a good middle ground? Honestly, I do not think there is a perfect solution. If any cavarly unit is made stronger or more effective against pikes, it needs a new counter.

ringbearer:
Concerning Rohan's economy and Hamanathnath's proposal. I wouldn't go for price reduction of upgrades by building armouries. I've always liked BFME1 balance concerning rohans upgrades. In BFME1 Rohan doesn't have price reduction on upgrades like Isen or Gondor. But price of their upgrades were lower by default. I think it's worth implementing something similar.

 I suggest making it like this: you build armoury, but at first you can research only banner carrier for 400. After this you are able to research heavy armour and forged blades ( for 600 or 800). Giving these upgrades to your troops would cost you for Heavy armour and Forged blades 210 and Banner for 150. Yeah , these numbers are a matter of balance but still idea is pretty solid, it worked in BFME1.

-DJANGO-:
I think that in BFME1 the upgrade costs were only lower be default for the peasants, which were not so usefull as in Edain 4.X.
I agree with Rohan getting the Grand Harvest Upgrade for the economy. But though I think that Eomers ability is still usefull in LG.
I don't like the idea of making Rohan stronger in LG "because it just should". A diverse mix of Westfold units peasants and all kinds of Cav + leveled Heros is in my opinion already really strong and hard to beat.

But I agree that Rohans counter against Pikes should be stronger than "just" an elite unit ability. I really liked the idea how in BFME1 Rohirrim-Archers did a lot of damage against pikes! Thus I believe that the Rohirrim-Archers should be really strong against pikes. Without firearrows strong against pikes without heavy amor. With firearrows really strong against pikes with heavy amor. As thei cost and cp-cost is quite high, i think that they can fit in that role of "pike-counter". Concerning the balance they should be extremely vulnerable against enemy-archers and melee fight.
=> Improving this unit, would give Rohan an alternative counter against Pikes. And the unit would be worth their 120 CP and 700 Res (without reduction?).

Chiska:
Django's idea sounds like the most logical solution to me. Mounted Archers always were pretty useless but I suppose Rohan can be an exception because of their renowned cavalry reputation.

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