[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Strategy

Strategies against the Skirmish AI

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Sefie1999AD:
I've been learning to play with 1000 starting credits, and after a bit of adjustment, I really like it, as it gives the early game, scout hero and creeping a whole new strategic level. :)

Can I have some tips for defeating Hard/Brutal Lothlorien AI, or to be more specific, how to counter Ent rushes for each race? The battles against Elves seem to follow the same pattern: first troop spam (mainly Archers and Galadhrim), heroes at some point, and eventually they build an Ent Moot close to their base, and if I can't take it out in time, they'll just attack with endless waves of Ents, creating more Ent Moots along the way. Other races' siege weapons are quite easy to kill with melee units, especially heroes, but Ents are very good at defending themselves at close range. Spamming archers with Fire Arrows could work, but if I'm focused on getting heroes first, the chances are that I don't have the Fire Arrow upgrade yet when the Ent rush starts. Are there any other effective ways of killing Ents?

DrHouse93:
I partially quote the post of Selfie1999, because I freaking HATE the Ent spam more than anything else (especially when playing as Isengard). Today I managed to beat a brutal, but it had the handicap, so is not a real victory xD

Odysseus:

--- Zitat ---I've been learning to play with 1000 starting credits, and after a bit of adjustment, I really like it, as it gives the early game, scout hero and creeping a whole new strategic level. :)
--- Ende Zitat ---
Now this is what we like to hear! Keep going like that!

The trick to dealing with Ents is the spam of archers. Even without fire arrows, they can already take care of an ent or two if you get out multiple. Pikes are also useful, but archers/crossbows do more damage to them. Most Ents the ai sends will try to melee your buildings, so you have time to land some volleys with your ranged units on them. Lothlorien has no real cavalry, so your archers will only really suffer from Beorningers and other archers. It's all about the micro in those cases :). Abuse the ai by simply keep moving a target that is under fire out of range, and the enemy will follow that squad until it dies.

With Isengard, it's very difficult to really do anything aggressive early on against the ai with 1000 resources. Personally, I would say that it is impossible, because Isengard's early game is the weakest of all factions against a resource cheating AI. So, build a tower in your base, expand on a couple of settlements 3-4, and safe up for a hero. Preferably Ugluk, because he has a heal. Keep your Isengard scouts alive and get them to level 2, where they will have arrows. Depending on the map, you want to have either 1 or 2 towers in your base, and garrison them with level 2 scout uruks. They will destroy ends with their arrows. They will also level while in the tower. Keep expanding some smaller sentry towers in the meantime, and build up your economy in the base. Delete your outer settlements if they are unprotectable, to gain some resources back. Do not upgrade them! Only if they are safe or close to your base/easy to protect. Then, while your hero is levelling from dealing with other units than ents, unless to save your tower, you can probably get another hero out in the meantime. From there, you should have a pretty solid base to deflect enemy infantry, ents and heroes altogether. I would opt for Ugluk and Lurtz because they work very well together. From there on out, if your base still stands (it should), start teching up with your uruk pit. Spam out archers and when in level 3 war machine, equip them with shields. From there, you will gradually retake the map and the game. This is the strategy I employ most of the times and it has never failed me yet. I would avoid Lumber Camps, it makes Ents go berserk and suddenly they become even more dangerous, because they will have more speed.

Mordor has it the easiest, they can get quick access to fire arrows. Usually you can already outspam your opponent with orcs to gain more map control. If your base is in dire need, build a Defensive Tower and have Sauron influence it. Fire Arrows everywhere haha! Even on the smaller towers! The Barricade Spellbook Power is very useful as well. Cirith Ungol orcs and Black Uruk-hai archers are pretty awesome too, but a bit expensive. Your call.

Rohan, well, it's a bit tricky. What I can say is that Gamling's Fire Arrow ability here, is beyond important, much more so than the horn in this match up (which is usually more important in all the other matchups). Ah...the beauty of the Edain mod. From there, you can either focus on archers and spear throwers backed up by (Corrupted) Theoden or get Theodred with Sentry Towers. You can also rush for Cavalry archers, but it is a bit risky. Combining them towards mid-lategame is always a good idea. There is room for some creativity here, but make sure you always expand as quickly as you can, but with moderation so that you get a decent clash flow. This applies for each faction. Oh, and always defend your base with sentry towers. Even one ent can take down an unprotected base quite quickly.

Gondor has it a bit harder here. You could go for the Gondor Archers, but I prefer to go for the Ithilien Rangers. They do high amounts of damage versus ents, even without fire arrows. Beregond is pretty much a must too, to protect your buildings. Gondor's cavalry is fantastic against Lothlorien, so you can still get them, but avoid engaging ents and pikes with them. Gondor's base is also packed with turrets that will nicely defend your base against ents.

About the Dwarves, there is not much point in explaining that now, since in 4.3, all of them will be completely overhauled.

Lothlorien mirror: Quite easy, your archers will nicely do away with ents if you kite them. Your base will also do quite well against them. Since Lothlorien is usely going to be outnumbered, upgrading your base with Silverthorns and being more defensive is a priority. Lothlorien gets a lot of resources from their base anyway, so the settlements are a little less important.

I am pretty confident that you will see what works and what does not work, and you'll figure out the trend in how to deal with ents and that you adjust your strategy accordingly. Ents hate focus fire, as do most high value and high hp single units, but for a siege unit, Ents are unique in that way, for being (very) fragile to arrows, which the other siege units are not.

(PS. Angmar: Coming soon^tm :P.)

Hope this helps a bit!

Kind regards.

Elite KryPtik:
Odysseus had a lot of good strategies, but forgot something pretty important about Isengard.

Not only does Isengard have the 3rd strongest early game, behind Rohan and Mordor, but they have Wildmen Axe Throwers which can be upgraded with torches, AKA dead ents. Shame on you for forgetting this Odysseus :P

As for Rohan, by the time the Ent spam starts coming out you should have at least 3 heroes who have been banished by Théoden, doubling their damage, who can easily clean up ents.

Dwarves can clean up ents pretty easily because of how quickly they have access to Fire Arrows. Just build an armory and you can get it immediately. Axe Throwers with Forged Blades also do heavy damage against Ents.

Final point: You are NOT going to win an archer spam against Lorien. It is important to have lots of archers, like Odysseus said, but you also must keep other troops types. If possible for your faction, get cavalry, they can wreck anything Lorien has, even the Lorien Pikeguard. Just watch out for Mirkwood Sentries.

Odysseus:
Kryptik is somewhat right. Wildmen are pretty sick against Ents, although, the reason why I didn't mention them is because I find them unnecessary versus the AI, somewhat risky and quite map dependent. Wildmen are extremely potent in player versus player because stealing resources from your opponent is something you always want to do if you can, but against AI, it's not very important. The AI gets what it wants regarding resources. Besides, I find Wildmen axe throwers rather cost-ineffective against the AI. Wildmen scale poorly against Lothlorien Archer spam because they are outranged from the beginning, they cannot be healed, and an ent can, if properly positioned, take out an entire battalion in one swoop. Uruks on the other hand scale very nicely. They can take some hits and their piercing crossbows do insane amounts of damage.
Actually, I find Lothlorien's second biggest weakness to be arrows. Their troops cannot get heavy armour and all their siege units are vulnerable to arrows (Beorningers were made more vulnerable to arrows remember?). Finally, I didn't mention the mixing of your troops because I thought it was self-explanatory, but if not, then yes, having a good mix of troops is always good.

Playing against a brutal AI, especially on small maps, is all about the early game. Very few factions (Gondor with cavalry, and Mordor with double barrack orc spam) can effectively pressure early game against a spamming brutal AI, so it's much safer to build up than to be agressive. In short, it's much safer and you get more action too :). It's funny, because when playing online, you kind of want to do the opposite, and pressure your opponent instead of defending. After all, the best defense is offense ^^. Basically, everything Kryptik holds very true in pvp, but not everything is waterproof against the AI simply because they spam so much. Try a small map like East Bight, it can be quite challeging :).

Off-topic perhaps, but you can banish multiple heroes? I never seemed to got that to work, strangely. Perhaps it is a bug in the current beta, I will have to check that in the internal. Thanks for the info!

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