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Autor Thema: Imladris Ring Hero Ideas  (Gelesen 612 mal)

Aranruth

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Imladris Ring Hero Ideas
« am: 22. Sep 2017, 17:30 »
Hi everyone. Just to be clear, I really like the Fellowship as the Ring hero unit of Imladris. But I also think having the Fellowship as an Imladris unit creates a problem, because I also wish that some of the Fellowship could also be temporary summons.

For example, it would be incredibly cool and unique for Imladris to have a temporary White Council summon. However, we couldn't do that at the moment because there would be potentially 2 Gandalf heroes present in the same faction at once. Is there a way to code it so that Gandalf disappears from the Fellowship and appears with the White Council if such a power was activated? My gut reaction says that this wouldn't work, but it would be neat if it could.

Also, I would love for Arwen's final power to be replaced with a temporary Aragorn summon, because I think the banner is a little underwhelming. But again, we would face the same issues as before.

So I wanted to see if anyone had any ideas for ring hero alternatives.
Some that come to mind:

Tom Bombadil, Guardian of the Ring...permanently summons Tom Bombadil to the map as a controllable hero. In the books, it was suggested that Tom be given the ring, so that is where this idea comes from.

Elrond the Blessed: Elrond rejects the ring and is blessed by the Valar. Similar to Galadriel's or Saruman's "Blessed" feature.

Bilbo Baggins: Permanently summons old Bilbo to the battlefield at level 10, with a variety of useful abilities. He wouldn't be empowered by the ring, but would be given incredible stealth capabilities.

Rivendell's Blessing: Elrond rejects the ring, granting the Valar's blessing upon Rivendell's heroes. Grants a large discount for heroes and buffs the armor and damage of all heroes on the battlefield.

So, anyway...like I said, I really like the current ring hero. But, if we could find another good alternative, I think Imladris would benefit by being able to summon certain members of the fellowship in other powers.

FG15

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Re: Imladris Ring Hero Ideas
« Antwort #1 am: 22. Sep 2017, 17:48 »
Zitat
Is there a way to code it so that Gandalf disappears from the Fellowship and appears with the White Council if such a power was activated? My gut reaction says that this wouldn't work, but it would be neat if it could.
No, that's the reason, why the council of Elrond Spell was removed from Rivendell.

Walküre

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Re: Imladris Ring Hero Ideas
« Antwort #2 am: 22. Sep 2017, 23:38 »
The Fellowship as the faction's own Ring feature is the option that makes sense the most, at the end of the day. If you think about it, Elrond becoming High King via the One Ring (the old concept) was problematical due to the involvement of such evil artefact, him being blessed is not a very consistent of a proposal, given the lack of that temptation motive which characterises Galadriel and the absence of any fault on Elrond's part (he had not partaken in the rebellion against the Valar), Bilbo does not give the idea of an appealing choice as a Ring Hero and the good and old Tom being permanent seems to me not enough unique (he's already present in the spellbook).

The Fellowship is totally in tune with the atmosphere of the War of the Ring and its implementation explores the theme at the heart of LOTR and of the first chapter of the trilogy, conveying the cinematographic feeling we expect the Edain Mod to be based on.

Canis carcharothias

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Re: Imladris Ring Hero Ideas
« Antwort #3 am: 23. Sep 2017, 09:27 »
I, also, don't think that there is a better option for the ring hero. The team has hit right in the spot here.

Aranruth

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Re: Imladris Ring Hero Ideas
« Antwort #4 am: 23. Sep 2017, 18:52 »
I totally get that, like I said, I really like the current mechanic.
The fact that two different factions can have the same permanently summonabke character is problematic to me. So, now you can have Imladris' Fellowship fighting Aragorn and Gandalf from Gondor, AND now with 4.5, you also face Rohan's Three Hunters. So, you can potentially have three permanent Aragorns fighting eachother. Temporary summons are a different matter, as they follow different rules when it comes to timelines and continuity(ie Last Alliance summon).

I also think that finding an alternative to Imladris' ring mechanic would allow for other Lore- appropriate dynamics that would be really unique and beneficial to the overall feel of the faction like a White Council summon or Aragorn summon for Arwen.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to cause conflict. I think the Edain team has successfully created one of the best LOTR games ever. I simply want to discuss the current mechanics and see if there are better alternatives. Open discussion is one of the things that makes this mod truly great.

Walküre

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Re: Imladris Ring Hero Ideas
« Antwort #5 am: 23. Sep 2017, 21:58 »
I wouldn't view heroes themselves as a problem; not if you refer to different factions and potential replicas of the same hero. It may happen that one sees identical heroes battling each other during a game, even though that depends simply on the opponent's choice. It might be that you could face identical factions and thus have the same heroes fight their own enemy counterparts. Strange, of course, yet merely dependent on that kind of eventualities in a game. Personally, I don't consider it a valid reason to jettison the current concept. Issues are relevant when they deal with timeline, lore, balance or conceptual aspects. I could find myself in the unpleasant situation of fighting numerous replicas of Galadriel, if all my opponents have chosen that faction, but that would not question the propriety of the heroine's presence in her faction. It is a simplistic explanation, but it exemplifies the main reasoning.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to cause conflict. I think the Edain team has successfully created one of the best LOTR games ever. I simply want to discuss the current mechanics and see if there are better alternatives. Open discussion is one of the things that makes this mod truly great.

You're causing no conflict, at all. If you cherish debates, this is the proper place.

SP19XX

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Re: Imladris Ring Hero Ideas
« Antwort #6 am: 4. Okt 2017, 01:12 »
I'm personally of the opinion that Imladris should have a second option for their Ring Hero. Not because of the potential of duplicates of one hero omnipresent in one battle, but more in the sense that the trending theme of Good factions is that each of them has more than one choice of a ring hero, or ring hero outcome (Gandalf and Galadriel) that requires the player to put some thought into their choices.

I do however disagree with the above selection for quite a few of the reasons pointed out above, most of them would be uncharacteristic or unfitting within the confines of the game. I believe the best actual candidate for this would be Glorfindel if it were to occur, which I will outline below;

Glorfindel was one of the most powerful elves that existed in the third age, he was sent back by Mandos due to his deeds of heroism as a direct emissary for the Valar by Manwe, and was given power almost equal to that of an unrestrained Maiar. His power was so great even that at the council of Elrond, he was suggested as a potential member, only to be dismissed as his power would draw far too much attention to keep the ring secret. He also held no fear of the Nazgul, Sauron's strongest servants, and there is also some implied underlying fear among the Nazgul of Glorfindel were he to use his abilities to their potential.

With this in mind I was thinking perhaps this could draw upon a what if should Glorfindel were to use his full strength in battle. Turning him from a Tank into a Debuffer of both heroes and units alike, perhaps even affecting his own allies.



Aranruth

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Re: Imladris Ring Hero Ideas
« Antwort #7 am: 4. Okt 2017, 01:21 »
Maybe, but Glorfindel would, like Elrond, never have accepted the ring. So, having mass debuff wouldn't suit him. I like the idea of incorporating him in some way, but his function as a ring hero would probably be as a "Blessed" hero who rejects the ring.

SP19XX

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Re: Imladris Ring Hero Ideas
« Antwort #8 am: 4. Okt 2017, 01:38 »
True, though this is a somewhat "what-if" scenario as with both of Gandalf's ring hero forms. It can work via both methods, though he has already been blessed by the Valar, so it would also be interesting to see how that could potentially be corrupted as well.

Walküre

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Re: Imladris Ring Hero Ideas
« Antwort #9 am: 4. Okt 2017, 21:10 »
I don't like Glorfindel either, as an option. As you said, he would never accept to bear the bane of Elves, Men and Middle-earth as a whole. The theme of refusal is proper of Galadriel and so it ought to remain, I daresay. As for Gandalf the Blessed, I reckon he's a quite controversial figure; he would too never use the One Ring for any purpose. The Valar would rather condemn whom accepts it. Moreover, just to reiterate your own words, Glorfindel has already been blessed with a new life and with an imperative mission in the mortal continent.

The Fellowship is truly the sole viable solution; that's why it was conceived in the first place. The struggle of dealing with the One Ring issue is even present in the very books; we could draw some comparisons. The Council of Elrond had gone through all sorts of different alternatives, albeit none of them satisfying the core problem underlying such an artefact. The Fellowship was summoned as a last resource. I therefore infer that an akin dilemma was within the Edain Team ;)

They even suggested the One be shipped to Eressëa, beyond the sundering seas. Suggestions rejected, for the Ruling Ring embodied the Evil and all the flaws of the World, which the people of Middle-earth only should have mended.

Artificialis

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Re: Imladris Ring Hero Ideas
« Antwort #10 am: 9. Okt 2017, 02:03 »
I would love to be able to summon the White Council, especially as a ring hero. (**) Which would have the benefit of having them as a permanent unit and not having two Gandalfs at the same time, because you would either have to choose between the Fellowship or the White Council.

On the other hand, it would probably make the Fellowship the less powerful and therefore less interesting unit. Which would be a shame because I think it is one of the most interesting ring hero units at the moment. And it would probably make the individual White Council characters less special within their own factions if they can simply be summoned as a group when playing as Imladris.

And which characters should be included? Elrond, Galadriel, Saruman and Gandalf? Or Radagast as well? Would they be affected by the ring? Or would they be summoned to keep it safe from the enemy?

''There is one who I could follow.. There is one I could call king..''