[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Angmar Suggestions

Angmar Balance Discussion

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Halbarad:
Sounds reasonable, either that or it should give less money. That way the outpost would still be able to give you Carn Dûm units.

Seleukos I.:
I agree with Necro, rushing an Angmar outpost is too strong and cheap atm. Delaying the spawning of the cart sounds like a good solution.


Another thing I wanted to talk about is Zaphragor :D
I like the change and indirect nerf he got with 4.5.3, but I still think he is too strong for his price.
Zaphragor, as we all know, combines aspects of a mass-slayer and a herokiller (and maybe even a tank). His level 1 and level 10 abilities both are very strong, about as strong as Gandalfs level 1 and level 10.
However, Zaphragor's level 10 ability does not only blow up an entire army, it also stuns enemy heroes. This means that Zaphragor most of the time is able to escape despite his low hp after using the ability.
On top of that he is a strong melee fighter. His mean he doesn't have the main weakness of Gandalf or Saruman: He can't be taken down by enemy heroes/units as easily.
And on top of that he heals way faster than any other hero. The idea behind this is, I guess, to compensate for him loosing hp when using his abilities. However, expet for his level 10 ability non of his powers really take away a lot of hp, so his makes him a lot stronger as well.

To nerf Zaphragor I'd suggest the following:
1) Remove the hero-stun from this level 10 power
2) Lower his healing rate to a normal one

This changes shouldn't overnerf him (I hope^^), but still make him a bit less powerfull.
He isn't supposed to be Angmar's "main hero" after all, that's still the WK.

Best regardes,
Selukos

Halbarad:
Don't know how strong 1) is but suggestion 2) sounds good to me. With less healing rate the player would have to choose much more carefully when to use them so it would probably more interesting. While changing that it could be interesting if he would profit stronger from Well of Souls than other units. That could highlight his connection with the Sourcerers of Angmar and would make them more useful next to all of Angmars mass slaying heroes.

Seleukos I.:
The problem with the hero-stun is, that Zaphragor can - after using his level 10 ability - use his super high melee damage to more or less two shot frozen enemy heroes. Also he can escape easily even if there is an Eowyn for example: You can't punish and kill a low hp Zapgragor with your hero killer, because they are frozen.

Since sourcerers aren't used that often atm I like the idea of giving them some kind of special interaction with Zaphragor.

Best regardes,
Seleukos

Halbarad:
ok then it seems like nothing has changed since I used Zaphragors Level 10 ability the last time against heroes (which was probably in 4.4.1), back then it was also being used to kill the enemy heroes with low health Zaphragor, not only for running away.
 
Another reason to change this is that I think it would feel better/ more logical if it would just freeze or throwing away: It could be some kind of frost wave that freezes everything or it could be some shock wave that throws everything surrounding Zaphragor away, but doing one thing to units and the other thing to heroes doesn't feel consistent to me. So I think the best solutions, also to keep balance in mind, are:

1) Units get thrown away (as they are now) while heroes
    - a) get thrown away too
    - b) get slowed down
    - c) aren't affected (only get damage)
2) Units get frozen while heroes
    - a) get frozen too (in terms of balance much shorter than right now, so just about 1 or 2 seconds)
    - b) get slowed down
    - c) only get damage

Since Zaphragor doesn't really care about his own life and isn't that much of a team player allied Angmar units next to him could be thrown away or slowed down too when using his ability. You suggested 1c, I personally think 1a, 1b, 2a, 2b could be more interesting. Not affecting heroes at all seems a bit too much to me, I think Gandalf Level 10 does throw away heroes two while Zaphragor is really able to die when using his level 10 ability because of him losing life, so I would give him a bit of a chance when using the ability at the front when the enemy got 5 heroes near to him (who would hit him while he is using the ability).

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