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Angmar Balance Discussion

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BalkanLuka:
Greatly support the opinion of Hammananth and of Draco in certain points.

1- In the current game i absolutley feel discouraged to use wolf riders because it is far more easier and useful to use black numenorians with a lv3 baracks, the required upgrade for the wolf cavalry, though preventing early wolf spam also makes them apear in late game where their strategic impact and utility is greatly reduced, thus forcing the player to only use the viable option and that is the black numenorian army.

The player should have an alternative in mid-game, should i chose a mass thrall army that can't be upgraded but encompanied by fast wolf riders, or a smaller thrall army folowed by upgraded black numenorieans. Thus i suggest removing the wolf breeding requirement for the Wolf riders, and just adding the lv.2 building reqirement, acompanied by small nerfs if recuired.

2-Tribute carts, the speed of spawning is fine, the resource bonus is fine, but the thing that bothers me is how fast you can level up your buildings,especially to lv3. As other factions you must folow a cycle- make economic buildings/make army to defend them/upgrade economy/upgrade ilitary bases to lv.3 , but Angmar does not folow that rule, which is fine for diversivication but should be toned down a bit.

My sugestion is this, ONE tribute cart is needed for lv. 2 building, but TWO for lv.3 This would make the use of tribute carts more strategic in planing your base and units that you want to be faster produced, requiring prioratising but not severely hampering you because it is only for lv.3 ,thus late-game, giving the choice to angmar players to specificly target the unit tactic they want ,be it the numenorian,sorcerror, werewolf or advanced sieage and upgrades, and not having all of them at once. In the current situation in more than one multiplayer match  i was saved by sorrcerers killing even cavalry charges by simply stunlock-soul freezing and later mass poisoning them,only to be finished off by minor thrall masses. The problem is i did this too early, i had a lv.3 Temple of twilight and lv.3Barracks, while my enemy a lv2 barracks and stable, so he could neither counter me with mass units nor quick production.

Lord of Mordor:
Thanks for your suggestions, everyone! :) We'll be severely toning down many of Angmar's AoE spells and increasing the cost of the sorcerers while decreasing the strength of most of their abilities for the next patch.

We also looked at several heroes and have extensively reworked Dûrmarth in particular. He is still very good at killing enemy heroes and protecting your own, but will have much less crowd control (no freezing at all), so you have to combine him with some of Angmar's other options for maximum efficiency. Furthermore, Mornamarth and Gulzar will now require the Men of Carn Dûrm or Sorcerer Outpost respectively so you have access to less heroes in your base.

We haven't changed the levelling system yet, but I like the idea of requiring two carts for level 3 and moving the wolf upgrade to level one.

Regarding some of your other, smaller points: Thrall masters can't be much cheaper without also getting weaker. Their units are similiar in strength to other basic infantry, and replenished for free on top of that. That is also why they can't use banner carriers - the thrall master is himself a banner carrier.

The mill discount's main point is discounting Werewolves, which I think can be very powerful because they're so expensive.

Hamanathnath:
I'm glad to hear that the AoE spells will be toned down.  :)

About Sorcerer's, I did not mention them in my original post because I didn't use them enough to have an opinion on them.  The main problem I have with them right now is their Command Point cost, which is dreadfully low.  I think it needs to be at least 45 CP per group. 

Moving Mornamarth and Gulzar to the Outpost upgrades sound like a great idea.  I think their price should be evened out because of this (so 2000 for each instead of 1800 and 2200).

I'm also happy about Durmarth losing his abilities to freeze armies.  It was just was too strong. 

Concerning mills, I know that the main point is to discount Werewolves.  The problem I have with this is that making Mills is more of a gamble then making Smelters.  If the enemy make a Pike based Army, which a lot of the Factions do, Werewolves aren't the best option.  But Men of Carn Dum are always part of an Angmar Army late in the game.  And even if you do want to use Werewolves, generally making too many of them isn't worth it, not only because enough pikes can ruin that plan, but also you have the chance of really feeding your enemies heroes with Experience.  I'm not saying Werewolves are a bad unit, because they are strong.  But like every Monster in the game, they have a big weakness, and because of this, making a lot of them isn't a good idea, making the discount to them not as useful as the Smelter discount.

Greetings,  Hamanathnath

BalkanLuka:
I just read Lord of Mordors response concerning the Sorcerers and the intent to weaken them, im fine with that but please reconsider increasing their price, i think their price is fine, if it would be bigger it would be higly discouragng to use them, weak+expensive is not popular, instead maybe you can leave their price the same, but increase the upgrade cost of Soul freeze,Corpse rain and Well of souls, who are the main reason for their power and not the sorrcerer itself who has only support abilities if left un-upgraded.

Second either increase their CP cost as other suggested, or increase production time, so if  a player wants more sorcerers,then he must focus tribut to them, while losing the posibility of creating faster thralls and wolves.

As for the ability strenght i think they are ok, havent noticed that they are ultra effectiive, the only problem is how fast you get them- cost, time, building lv. shuld weaken them and not directly the sorcerror.

ringbearer:

--- Zitat von: Lord of Mordor am 10. Apr 2016, 02:24 --- Furthermore, Mornamarth and Gulzar will now require the Men of Carn Dûrm or Sorcerer Outpost respectively so you have access to less heroes in your base.

--- Ende Zitat ---

I don't think it's a good idea, I can't think of anyone who would choose Gulzar insted of Mornamarth. Mornamarth is strongly linked to Man of Carn Dum, makes them cheaper and more powerfull while Gulzar has his own accolytes, he doesn't need sorcerers and they don't need him. Time will tell but I bet it will end up with no Gulzar at all in games.

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