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Misty Mountains Speculations and Questions

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Shadowlord:

--- Zitat von: AulëTheSmith am 27. Sep 2017, 19:00 ---

At the beginning of the game Smaug will be available in the Dragon Lair, with the following summoning system, depending on the level of the structure:


Level 1: "Small Treasure": at the cost of 500 resources you can temporary summon Smaug for 2 minutes.

Level 2: "Great Treasure": at the cost of 1000 resources you can temporary summon Smaug for 4 minutes.

Level 3: "Immense Treasure": at the cost of 1500 resources you can temporary summon Smaug for 6 minutes.


--- Ende Zitat ---
I really like the ideas you have behind Smaug, however like many others I do have a problem with the tribute system.

Although its a cool idea to get a powerful late game unit like Smaug early, I feel that makes the Dragon's lair as a building very boring and linear in a stragetic sense.

You could have the Dragon's Lair serve as a way to give the Misty Mountains faction unit upgrades, with the Smaug summoning mechanic as an additional bonus. But from what I can see its too punishing to spend gold to summon Smaug when you can just build the lair and wait until he can be permanently recruited so you can save the gold you would normally spend just to summon him.

Note: Thematic wise it might be better if the dragon's lair offered economic upgrades instead of unit upgrades as well to fit the whole Dragon's greed theme as well.

Here's an idea I have for the tribute system. What you could do is have Smaug level up each time you summon it, the more gold you spend the faster he gains experience. So you are encouraged to invest in Smaug early. Of course you can add a cooldown timer so players can't abuse the mechanic. By the time you buy Smaug as a permanent hero he will be near max level.

One last thing, I am not a big fan of his Dragon Sickness ability because it buffs enemy buildings. Personally I think it would make more sense if it was just a copy of the Hillman's pillage ability where Smaug gains resources from attacking enemy buildings to symbolize his desire for taking the wealth of others.

What do you think?

Walküre:

--- Zitat von: AulëTheSmith am 30. Sep 2017, 15:42 ---One last question: which one of the two via-spellbook implementation do you like the most? The stand-alone or an including in the central spell? The last one is probably most compact, and avoid the use of an entire power only for him (considering also new spellbooks having one less spell with respect to the old ones). But the first one could be much more iconic if it includes, together with Smaug, other minor fire breathing dragons. Of course both are sticked to the gold-desire content  :).

--- Ende Zitat ---

As you may have surely read in the articles that were published until the present moment, the point of central spells is that they are supposed to embody pivotal themes of each faction. A subject underlying all aspects of the faction, together with a pervasive effect on the game itself and significant references to the lore. Namely, this is exactly the logic that spells as His Deadliest Servants, Wizard's Tower or Théoden Liberated and for the other cases equally. Furthermore, I can assure you that the same principle applies to Lothlórien, Angmar and Imladris; I hope that the related articles will be out soon.

That said, Smaug being featured as the central spell of his faction might be a sound choice. In the perspective of that pervasiveness I previously mentioned, Smaug is indeed the best candidate for such an important post. He's the prime hero of the Misty Mountains and represents well the nature of those whom he serves, if we can use this expression. Being the faction the most Hobbit-based in the game, I guess that the dragon boasting that kind of prominence just follows as a consequence. Henceforth, I favour a central spell based and fashioned on the greatest of the calamities, as tales narrate.

AulëTheSmith:

--- Zitat von: Shadowlord am 30. Sep 2017, 20:20 ---Note: Thematic wise it might be better if the dragon's lair offered economic upgrades instead of unit upgrades as well to fit the whole Dragon's greed theme as well.

--- Ende Zitat ---

I don't find economy upgrades so fitting for dragon lair personally, dragons helping your economy is kinda weird because it is the antithesis of the definition of greediness  [ugly]
Filling the structure with a more abundant treasure could instead justify an increase of speed production of the fire-drakes, because they are "attracted" by the treasure.
The role of upgrades builiding will be probably fullfilled by the treasure cave :)


--- Zitat von: Shadowlord am 30. Sep 2017, 20:20 ---One last thing, I am not a big fan of his Dragon Sickness ability because it buffs enemy buildings. Personally I think it would make more sense if it was just a copy of the Hillman's pillage ability where Smaug gains resources from attacking enemy buildings to symbolize his desire for taking the wealth of others.
What do you think?

--- Ende Zitat ---

If it was a similar ability as pillage, you could earn resurces via Smaug. It is again the exact thing i want to avoid, in order to better rapresent him as selfish character: he doesn't share a single coin with anyone. I think the passive ability i conceived it is good. Smaug basically doesn't care about enemy/allies: he steals resources wherever he goes.


--- Zitat von: Shadowlord am 30. Sep 2017, 20:20 ---Here's an idea I have for the tribute system. What you could do is have Smaug level up each time you summon it, the more gold you spend the faster he gains experience. So you are encouraged to invest in Smaug early. Of course you can add a cooldown timer so players can't abuse the mechanic. By the time you buy Smaug as a permanent hero he will be near max level.

--- Ende Zitat ---


That's an interesting idea because, as you said, it could encourage the player to use Smaug early :) I'll think about it.


--- Zitat von: Walküre am  1. Okt 2017, 00:33 ---As you may have surely read in the articles that were published until the present moment, the point of central spells is that they are supposed to embody pivotal themes of each faction.

--- Ende Zitat ---

A pivotal theme common to any creature of MM could be the despoiling and pludering of treasures, in which Smaug of course is the best rapresentative. It is also the main reason why Goblins are the archenemy of the Dwarves  xD. I'll try to figure out something more general on this theme, starting from the current spell i crafted  ;)

Walküre:
Correct. I too was thinking about raiding and pillaging. Deprivation and infestation of spoils of war or ruins; Moria and its design convey properly this exact theme: an infesting force that lives (survives) off the spoils of its past enemies. At the end of the day, this is the very characterisation of most Goblins, and of those shown in FOTR. Smaug follows in the footsteps of this canon: he wrought total havoc in the halls of the Lonely Mountain, he conquered the realm, his enemies were utterly destroyed or forced into miserable fleeing and the dragon thus began to prey on the spoils of whom he had vanquished.

At the present state, I deem it the most reasonable choice. A central spell, without mentioning further the foremost prominence of Smaug in the Hobbit trilogy, as prime character and figure.

dkbluewizard:
Aule this has been BY FAR the best MM idea yet man! Great Job! I personally agree with everything you proposed and it is very canonical. I agree somewhat with Fredius that 3000 and a power spell seems like a lot, but given his destructive power, I think it is needed. All in all, I AGREE with your concept for what it is worth.

I would like to see Smaug somehow become a permanent hero and I think your idea addresses this. So I think we should go with that as that makes perfect sense. Again, phenomenal job!

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