Misty Mountains Speculations and Questions

[sgtryan88]

Hello everyone !

First of all, sorry for my bad english,  Im from Brazil and Im learing it yet.
Im using this experience to learn more about this language, so patience

I searched for Smaug on the sugestions page and didnt get any return, so i started this new topic.

As all we know Misty Mountains will introduce a new faction, with his own mechanics.

1 - Smaug's power.

In the Hobbit film, Smaug its a very powerfull, feared and formal dragon, I think edain mod have to keep his qualities, so the team need to make him a POWERFULL UNIT.
So powerfull that can defeat every hero from mod easily.

2. Smaug's atrracting system.

Smaug needs a complicated sytem, because its a very powerfull unit.

2.1 The treasure room.

The dragon its attracted by gold, so on the Misty Moutain fortress the player can buy a treasure expansion, where, it will able you to save gold to attract  Smaug.

2.2  Collecting gold.

You need to buy gold from a resource building and when you do it, a cart will spawn, so you can send it to your Fortress, every cart can supply your Treasure room with a limited amount of gold.

2.3 Smaug's gold fever.

When the treasure room is full, an option can be unlocked in the fortress, where smaug will appear to get the money, and the treasure room will be emptied.

2.4 Smaug's spawn mechanic.

Smaug can be shortly used.

2.5 From Ring mechanic.
When Azog or other unrevealed ring hero get the One Ring, a palandir spell can be unlocked.

2.6 Sauron's Corruption Words.
On this unlockble palandir spell,  through the One Ring, Sauron can do an enchantment, that will corrupt Smaug to One Ring's power, and he will be slave of him.

2.7 Smaug The Corrupted.
Now Smaug is under the influence of One Ring, and can be controled like a permanent unit.


3.1 Smaug characteristic.
Can walk or fly.

3.1.1 Walking
Can use his teeth (physical attack).
Can use his tail (physical attack).
Can gush fire on his enemies ( magical attack).

3.1.2 Flying
Can attack like a Fearbeast from Nazgul (physical attack).
Can gush fire on his enemies ( magical attack).
Can use his wings like a hurricane effect (magical attack).

What do you think about it?

[kmogon]

If you realy search for MM related sections , you miss sth very important . Try share your idea here:
https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,33098.0.html
Additionally smaug's concept was already mentoried ( I know that 3 years ago but it's still the only one which we have ) :
http://www.moddb.com/mods/edain-mod/news/the-road-to-edain-40-misty-mountains-part-two

[Walküre]

Simply said, I will merge this topic with the discussion thread related to the Misty Mountains, so that sgtryan88 won't have to type everything again.

--- MERGED ---

[Slawek56703]

My idea
Well before i say a im just worry about balance (it can just take to long) cuse u choose Balrog or alliance with Dragon.
Goblins will be 3 kingdoms so none of them theoretically should be able to build Treasure trove in thier outpost.Treasure Trove should be build in outpost (ex. Imladris fortress in Arnor faction).Treasure trove will have bigger scale than have now (because is build on outpost).
General Idea
Player have 3 tier spell from spellbook and want is ready to get 4tier spell Balrog or alliance with Dragon? Balrog advantage/disadvantage:

• very strong,strong abilities
• timelimit long cooldown

Ally with dragons advantage/disadvantage:

• passive,Ringhero, new building (Treasure Trove),unit(goblin tribute with gold)
• long evolution of strenght

Player can build Treasure Trove and Tribue Goblin with gold in citadel.When u have Treasure Trove build u can instantly summon Smaug.Player can control him but none of his abilities is avivable.
Warning this part is harder because Edain Team need to decide if Smaug will be temporary on early or we can have himpermamently.
I will make both possibilities.
Smaug Permamently
Smaug debuff monsters and on top of that scary units .None of Smaug abilities are avivable.
Player need from Citadel recruit Tribute Goblin with gold and take this gold to Smaug The Terrible and like {like archers going to tower (cursors to put them into)}.
After this act Smaug lvl up and u can use some of his early abilities and will have stats improved. Repeat this as long as he get level lvl 10. You need more like 5 tributes.
Tribute Goblin in this some time can be only one 1 on battefield and is recruit in 60s.
Smaug temporary:
Smaug can be summone on battefield but you have him on battlefield only 60s. After his time limit end Smaug vanish.When u click on treasure trove building you will see recharging Smaug summon .This spell take veeeery long to recharge .To make this shorter you need tribute goblin and take him to treasure trove building.With every number of goblin tribute building lvl up with limit to 3 . Similar to angmar system leveling up building.You need 2 tribute goblins to lvl treasure trove to lvl 2 .With this recharge spell to summon Smaug again  will be shorter and he get lvl 5.To get Smaug lvl 10 you need 3 tribute goblins.Treasure trove will be upgraded like in vanilla game .Building on lvl 3 more health points and u get small creep dragons protecting building.When treasure trove is on lvl 2 Smaug is on battefield 180s and when on lvl 3 he is permamently with all of his abilities.

My another idea is when MM faction get released Dragon Lair get removed from neutral and  become as buildable in settlement for MM after player get spell Alliance with Dragon.For sake of balance player can only build 1 building like this in this some (for 300) and 1 Fire drake and 1 baby drake will protect that .In this Lair of drakes player can buld Kaldrache flying drake limited to 3. not good ? Player in this building can buy 3 baby drakes . Those drakes can level up and grow up and have level up system like in 3.8.1 .I final stage they can fly.But of course we know they will be weak vs archers and abilities.
You ask why i want to get rip off Creep Drakes ? I can answer .When MM get released they need good ultimate spell and this is some addition to Alliance with dragon.I am not sure if MM get possibility to summon Creep Lair so i think it would be resonable for them to summon only goblin lair and troll lair .

Looking for Feddback
Peace

[Julio229]

I tried to come up with a quick concept for the Tier 4 spell, based on the idea of having the Legions of Gundabad appear from tunnels made by something (maybe the Nameless Things, but the problem with their allegiance still stands).

"Legions of Gundabad"

"Summon the armies of Gundabad to destroy your enemy."

When it is activated, The Defiler's Black Tongue quote "Let the Legions come forth" or a audio snippet of the part when he appears on the "Command Centre" of Ravenhill for the first time will play.

Something will open a big hole in the middle of the field, and the Legions of Gundabad will appear.

Units:
3 Dol Guldur Orcs / Gundabad Elite Orcs
3 Dol Guldur Archers / Gundabad Elite Archers
3 Dol Guldur Spearmen / Gundabad Elite Spearmen
3 Gundabad Battle Trolls (The one with armors on the BOTFA film, not the hideous ones )

I chose Dol Guldur troops because, if I recall correctly, their design is based on some of the troops from BOTFA.

Let me know what you think of this concept, I'd like to hear your thoughts!

EDIT: Added Gundabad elite units to the units part.

[kmogon]

Dol guldur orcs are based on orcs from second part of hobbit . Additionally I can say that ET wrote sth about similar skill in one of articles - there was said that instead of spider sommon will be tunnel summon from which orcs will go out .

[Julio229]

They would be different in a sense. The Spell that has been described by the Edain Team summons (If I remember correctly) regular units, while this would summon the army that was united to take the Mountain. They both use tunnels, and maybe this could work against the concept, but they are different in their own way.

It was just a quick concept I made to give a general view of my ideas, if you feel anything can be improved, say it .

I'd also like to add that I don't think Dragon Strike should be the counterpart to the Balrog's summon. It just feels strange, because, while it could be good gameplay wise, it hasn't changed since the vanilla game, and I think that with Smaug and the Dragon Outpost, there is enough Dragons in the Misty Mountains.

[Walküre]

It was just a quick concept I made to give a general view of my ideas, if you feel anything can be improved, say it 

And you/we have the absolute right to develop things by adjusting and reassessing concepts. Progression and debate definitely help perfect any kind of proposals 

I like the idea of a Goblins/Orcs-based summoning spell, though we should make clear whether it's meant to implement BOTFA Dol Guldur concepts (already well represented in Mordor) or some elite units of BOTFA Gundabad (that would otherwise not be in the regular Gundabad subfaction). I would still stick to the latter proposition. Another option could be respecting the Edain and BFME customs, and thus trying to conceive a destructive spell involving the wild wrath of nature; but we already dismissed some possible alternatives.

I'd also like to add that I don't think Dragon Strike should be the counterpart to the Balrog's summon. It just feels strange, because, while it could be good gameplay wise, it hasn't changed since the vanilla game, and I think that with Smaug and the Dragon Outpost, there is enough Dragons in the Misty Mountains.

Spot on. I reaffirm again my thoughts.

[Julio229]

Agree on the Gundabad units, the Dol Guldur ones were just kind of a placeholder for better ideas, and because I didn't remember a lot of the BOTFA concepts, even though I watched it last week . I think many aspects of that army can be represented with the spell, so it has a great value both conceptually-wise and gameplay-wise, that's why I like the idea of the "Legions" so much, because you can include a lot of the Hobbit trilogy Misty Mountains  concepts without breaking balance!

[Walküre]

I think many aspects of that army can be represented with the spell, so it has a great value both conceptually-wise and gameplay-wise, that's why I like the idea of the "Legions" so much, because you can include a lot of the Hobbit trilogy Misty Mountains  concepts without breaking balance!

Even if it's not necessarily referred to the Defiler, the legion theme might be a smart means via which it could be possible to provide more differentiation to the faction: beside the main loose and wild characteristics, there is also a structured military apparatus that can be temporarily unleashed against the enemies (mirroring for a brief amount of time Mordor's warfare).

The problem is that I have not played with the Misty Mountains yet and I don't really know which motives will exactly characterise the faction (I mean, their actual display in the game), nor can I have the precise sense of the extent of Bolg's military leadership. Considering also that we're still talking about the official news released almost three years ago.

Other insights will surely be of precious help, especially by someone who has already had the privilege to play with the Goblins. I recognise it's quite challenging to discuss about something in this particular context, but I believe it's surely worth gathering people's opinions on the matter 

[Julio229]

Same, I want to know the opinions of more people about the spell, and it would be great if someone that has already tested the Misty Mountains faction and knows how this faction will be ingame gave their opinion as well!

I am really interested in seeing this discussion continue, to see what we can do with the concept, or, who knows, a new concept that someone makes! Even if the Dragon Strike remained as the tier 4 power, it is always great to discuss about concepts or the mod in general.

[Fredius]

Well first of all, there might be plans that the orcs who followed Bolg out of Gundabad in BOTFA will become the heavy armor upgrade for the regular Gundabad orcs. So if the team ultimately decides to do that then I'd prefer the Dragon Strike over the orc summon, so that it won't be a copy of the Isengard Unleashed spell.

In that case I'd prefer the Battle Trolls of BOTFA to be buildable in the Troll cage after Bolg has been bought. Each hero respectively ranks up the recruitment buildings of their faction (f.e. Goblin king ranks up the Goblin town buildings, the Defiler ranks up the Gundabad barracks etc.). But in order for the buildings to reach rank 3, the player also needs to build Bolg. As Bolg is the unifier of the MM, he would rank up all the buildings of the faction, and as a bonus the units of MM can also purchase banner carriers. So to add another bonus I think the Troll cage (or the Giant outpost) should be able to build Gundabad Trolls.

[Julio229]

That levelling system seems amazing, and I think fits a lot with the faction and the unifying theme!

If they end up having that Heavy Armor look for the Gundabad units, I agree with you on having Dragon Strike (or another spell), and having the Battle Trolls be recruitable on the Troll Cage or the Outpost.

[Secret Keeper]

Each hero respectively ranks up the recruitment buildings of their faction (f.e. Goblin king ranks up the Goblin town buildings, the Defiler ranks up the Gundabad barracks etc.). But in order for the buildings to reach rank 3, the player also needs to build Bolg. As Bolg is the unifier of the MM, he would rank up all the buildings of the faction.

I think this is the best idea so far.    --- I would keep dragon strike, it's much more intersting and unique than army summon.

[Fredius]

Actually that isn't my idea, this is how it already was in the mod . Julio asked for an opinion from someone who tested the faction, and me and hoho are the only ones in the English betatesting team who have done so.