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Autor Thema: Misty Mountains Speculations and Questions  (Gelesen 26415 mal)

bookworm1138

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Misty Mountains Speculations and Questions
« am: 9. Apr 2016, 04:35 »
This is wholly speculation based on what has been revealed about the Misty Mountains faction. Obviously the Edain Team is busy with the 4.3 bug fixes to worry about new factions, but curiosity has gotten the best of me (and my brother, who's also a fan of the mod) and I just have to ask and the General Suggestions board doesn't seem the right place for this question in particular:

My question is two-fold:

1) In the Factions post (found here: http://forum.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,32638.msg428786.html#msg428786), it says that the Misty Mountains will keep the Mountain Giants from the standard game. I don't know if this has been answered before, but will the team keep the standard game model of the Mountain Giants or use the rock-like Shadows of the Colossus models from AUJ? (pictures of each in the spoilers)


2) The main feature of the Misty Mountains faction is their ability to build tunnels to the other realms practically anywhere. With this in mind, will the camps/outposts be used at all?
"He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom."


Gnomi

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Re: Misty Mountains Speculations and Questions
« Antwort #1 am: 9. Apr 2016, 08:23 »
1.) We don't like the giants-version of the movie at all. They don't fit in tolkien's world and we won't add them.

2. Yes, we already wrote something about that in our news.^^

bookworm1138

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Re: Misty Mountains Speculations and Questions
« Antwort #2 am: 9. Apr 2016, 16:07 »
Thank you  :)

Feel free to close this thread, or keep it open if anyone else wants to ask questions about the Misty Mountains faction.
"He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom."


Walküre

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Re: Misty Mountains Speculations and Questions
« Antwort #3 am: 10. Apr 2016, 23:41 »
Feel free to close this thread, or keep it open if anyone else wants to ask questions about the Misty Mountains faction.

I think we could keep it open, as a place to gather in all the questions or opinions that people might want to share out of curiosity about the Misty Mountains  ;)
Che solo amore e luce ha per confine

Glorfindel23

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Re: Misty Mountains Speculations and Questions
« Antwort #4 am: 5. Sep 2016, 22:35 »
One question : I've seen that two model of Azog on modDB.

New model :


Old model :


Will you keep this texture for the new model or copy the old texture on it?

Fredius

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Re: Misty Mountains Speculations and Questions
« Antwort #5 am: 6. Sep 2016, 11:52 »
They will keep the new texture and new model. The old model/texture is obselete.

Glorfindel23

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Re: Misty Mountains Speculations and Questions
« Antwort #6 am: 6. Sep 2016, 18:35 »
Ok thank you!

Walküre

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Re: Misty Mountains Speculations and Questions
« Antwort #7 am: 8. Sep 2016, 03:50 »
I personally think that this thread could be a concrete opportunity to collect useful ideas, feedback and opinions regarding the forthcoming Misty Mountains faction, whose particular design undoubtedly makes it an innovative wind of fresh air for the whole Edain Mod; all of this combined with its reference to the cinematographic adaptation of the Hobbit and, at a minor extent, to the iconic Moria sequence of LOTR that we are all very familiar with  ;)

Whether it be here or in future suggestion threads that I or others might open, there are aspects of valuable importance that are certainly worth debating about: above all, in my opinion, Smaug and the Defiler (Azog's counterpart in the Mod).

But, since the 'Misty Mountains season' of wait and discussion has not officially started and given that we don't have yet a complete overview of the final portrait (it's not even known if the faction will be released with the next major patch), I would say that we had better be a bit patient for a while still and may I invite all the people interested to do so. Bearing also in mind that the official news concerning the Misty Mountains was published more than year ago, and that many significant changes that involved the other factions have taken place in the meantime (additional and pivotal ones more are probably likely to see light in future updates too).

As the faction will close the chapter (not the last one, I hope) of the main plan for Edain 4.0 and, coincidentally, will find its founding roots in the Hobbit (with BOTFA closing the cycle of PJ's six-film saga, in the good and in the bad), I just wanted to express my personal view, as a Moderator, of the positive occasions that may come in relation to possible fruitful debates; the kind of debates which always benefits the Mod's development and the entire forum greatly  :)
Che solo amore e luce ha per confine

TheDarkOne

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Re: Misty Mountains Speculations and Questions
« Antwort #8 am: 8. Sep 2016, 13:56 »
I hope MM Gundabad subfaction appearance will be based on designs from BOTFA. However this will create a little contradiction between Angmar and MM. You see, there are orcs from Gundabad present in Angmar forces but they are weak and their movements are monkey-like (the same as basic Mordor orcs).

MM's Gundabad orcs are descendants of those and they look entirely different. Harsh, strong and fearsome. But they bear the Iron Crown banners no longer, replacing them with symbols of bats. So it would be cool to give Angmar orcs the same model (excluding bat helmets) leave their stats untouched.

calsash

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Re: Misty Mountains Speculations and Questions
« Antwort #9 am: 8. Sep 2016, 15:10 »
I hope MM Gundabad subfaction appearance will be based on designs from BOTFA. However this will create a little contradiction between Angmar and MM. You see, there are orcs from Gundabad present in Angmar forces but they are weak and their movements are monkey-like (the same as basic Mordor orcs).

MM's Gundabad orcs are descendants of those and they look entirely different. Harsh, strong and fearsome. But they bear the Iron Crown banners no longer, replacing them with symbols of bats. So it would be cool to give Angmar orcs the same model (excluding bat helmets) leave their stats untouched.
I agree with this very much as im not a fan of the Angmar orc design.
"I would have followed you my brother my captain my king"

Walküre

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Re: Misty Mountains Speculations and Questions
« Antwort #10 am: 8. Sep 2016, 19:31 »
As far as I know, the Gundabad subfaction will indeed be mostly based on the Hobbit (as pretty much the whole faction). What is exactly not clearly known yet is how much of BOTFA is to be implemented; the very news that concerns the Misty Mountains was published before the actual release of the film. So far, it's been officially stated that the Gundabad fortress' design won't be part of the faction as the Edain Team didn't like it very much (I quite share the same opinion) and didn't deem it appropriate enough for their own interpretation.

That said, not so much has been revealed about units and heroes, as it would have objectively been too early for such indications. Henceforth, as I made it clear in my previous comment, it's still a bit premature to immerse ourselves in major debates of this sort; the Misty Mountains are not in the Betatesting phase yet. Things had thus better take their needed time. I'm nonetheless very pleased to see that the interest, apart from obvious reasons, is more than alive! I assure you that debating these and other prominent matters will be my personal onus  ;)
Che solo amore e luce ha per confine

Fredius

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Re: Misty Mountains Speculations and Questions
« Antwort #11 am: 8. Sep 2016, 20:35 »
Weren't the Angmar Gundabad Orcs not renamed to just Angmar Orcs, and therefore don't belong to Gundabad anymore?

DrHouse93

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Re: Misty Mountains Speculations and Questions
« Antwort #12 am: 8. Sep 2016, 23:54 »
I'd like to propose again an old idea of mine: the design of Moria buildings

While I completely agree with the fact that Moria Goblins should be the starting Orc realm for the Misty Mountains, and I love the design developed by the team, I think it's terribly nosense that the buildings of the Goblins of Moria are ruined versions of Dwarven buildings. Why this? For two main reasons:

1. Having Goblins infesting ruined Dwarven buildings is an awesome idea. Atleast, in maps actually related to the Dwarves (the Caradhras, Eregion, and so on). But, if you're playing on maps like Eastern Rohan, or The Shire, why the heck should the Dwarves have built a castle/camp in there, only to have it be destroyed and infested later on by Goblins?

2. If we consider that's the style of the Goblins of Moria, why should they copy the design of the Dwarves, but ruining their buildings? (they shouldn't even have their 'architectural' skills) Wouldn't it be more logical if they had their own design, which is more fitting on neutral maps?

So, here's my proposal: On maps related to the Dwarves (like the above mentioned Caradhras, High Pass, Ered Luin, and so on) the Misty Mountains will start with a ruined Dwarven camp as their main base. However, on all the remaining maps, the Misty Mountains will start with the same units and heroes, but their base will have the design of the standard Goblin faction from BFME 2 (it's a similar, yet different, mechanic of Arnor maps. In these ones, Arnor completely replaces Gondor. In Dwarven-related maps, the Misty Mountains will have a "Moria-style" base rather than their default style, but keeping units, heroes and spellbook unaffected)

So what happens to the Gundabad Outpost? Rather than using the default Goblin design from BFME2, it can have a completely new style (maybe based on the movie version of Gundabad) OR their buildings can be a mix between Goblin structures and Angmar ones

This way, the Misty Mountains will have an even more unique system, yet remaining canonical to the lore

Walküre

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Re: Misty Mountains Speculations and Questions
« Antwort #13 am: 9. Sep 2016, 01:41 »
I completely disagree with you, DrH. The reasons are multiple and encompass various aspects. I will summarise them to make it all simpler.

1. The kind of system you proposed is objectively too ossified and complex to adapt to a Mod with these standards. We are not talking about some map features or exceptions as Arnor; this is an entire structured and canonical faction to deal with, characterised by recognisable distinctive and unique traits as all the other ones. Having different designs depending on selected maps would 'ruin' the very conceptual unity of the faction itself and complicate everything without any real need that justifies this. Why would you ever make things complicated when they are already quite fine-tuned at the moment?

2. The main reasoning underlying your proposal is, in my opinion, quite naïve, if we take into account the basic gameplay requirements of the game. It would undoubtedly be a reasonable argument if we were to view things in a very purely logical perspective; but I'm afraid it doesn't apply to the common and usual context. For example, I could also question: why does Lothlórien start with luxuriant forest-castles or forest-camps in hostile (in a geographical and physical point of view, especially) maps as Mordor or Mount Doom? Can't we have (I'm inventing) a burnt/marred design when it comes to this sort of environment? The same could be said about Rivendell's holy sanctuaries and Gondor's mighty fortresses. This logic is just too dry to be even slightly manageable in practice.

3. The central heart of the Misty Mountains is the Moria subfaction for prominent reasons: the known iconic reference to the now legendary Moria sequence of the Fellowship of the Ring, the ordinary Goblins stick exactly to PJ's early interpretation (which I think is absolutely superior to the one of the Hobbit trilogy, in spite of the respect I have for the latest trilogy, and an absolutely coherent transposition), the Balrog lies dormant in the deepest caverns of this lost realm and, although set in the Hobbit timeline, this subfaction is the closest of the three to the War of the Ring timeline that most of the factions follow. Nevertheless, the faction will anyway contain mostly Hobbit-related content and I thus hope more improvements will be pursued in this direction; but I guess the 'supremacy issue' among the three souls of the Misty Mountains is undeniably tied to Moria due to the points exposed above. Nothing would ever capture the entire dark, eerie, dreadful and ghoulish essence of the Goblins better than Moria's cinematographic rendition  :)

4. Connecting to the third point, the graphical design of Moria was exactly fashioned on those canonical and iconic premises, recreating the ghostly 'tomb' about which Boromir talks (the very colour of the buildings has been darkened to resemble even more what we see in LOTR). The fact that this once prosperous Dwarven kingdom is now swarmed by packs of wicked Goblins is well displayed by the current representation and it couldn't honestly do more honour to this race's true nature.

5. I had the feeling that the Gundabad subfaction is portrayed more as the gathering of the Defiler's hunters, embodying thus a wandering motive different from the major characteristics I listed in the previous passages. I also don't like very much the vanilla design of BFME2, as it reminds me of how loose and flawed the Goblins were back in the day (with little consistency and even less adherence to the lore or to the films). Therefore, I sincerely believe, if we really were to choose the hegemonic subfaction out of the three, I would rather opt for the new, unique, innovative and very Edain-ish Moria  8-)

P.S. It's really interesting to notice how this faction manages to put me in an unusual good mood. Don't misunderstand me though, my awe is primarily due to firm contempt towards such nasty creatures; in addition, the fact that many grotesque sides of BOTFA will hopefully be explored properly is a favourable scope for hoping that other eerie aspects of the same film will be considered as well...  ;)
Che solo amore e luce ha per confine

Julio229

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Re: Misty Mountains Speculations and Questions
« Antwort #14 am: 9. Sep 2016, 02:04 »
I love having a thread for Misty Mountains! It will probably be my favourite faction, so I hope this thread is used a lot to discuss it!

I agree with DieWalküre on the Moria topic, the Dwarven-Infested buildings and the Moria scenes in FOTR are way too iconic for the Moria Goblins.

I didn't dislike original BFME2's Goblins concept, but it is true that it didn't truly embody the dark and even mysterious feeling that Moria Goblins have. It will be great to see so much variety in Misty Mountains. From the even humorous Goblin-Town goblins to the mysterious Moria ones, and even maintaining the vanilla design for buildings in the Gundabad subfaction!

I believe I don't have to say it, but Misty Mountains is the faction I've been waiting the most for!
« Letzte Änderung: 9. Sep 2016, 02:11 von Julio229 »