New Spellbook Powers

[Walküre]

I also think that, if Eagles were to be removed from Lothlorien's spellbook, Radagast should be able to summon two of them. This atleast would be a good compromise, as it wouldn't remove the Eagles entirely from Lothlorien, but still differentiating their spawn because they're tied to Radagast (which will make the player think if he needs him on foot, on his sledge or leading Eagles).

In my opinion, the Radagast power right now doesn't have enough grandeur to represent that event. With some changes, it could be more than enough, I grant you that (and DrHouse, as I can read now).

PD: The huorn concept is great for Lórien, and it doesn't need too much animation, just a really dense forest that shakes while doing damage to the units, like in the movie.

I agree with you both. Improving Radagast's ability would surely be the wise solution we are seeking for, solving the whole 'eagle issue' that concerns Lothlórien.

The Huorns are probably the most appropriate candidate. They were proposed in the past, as far as I remember, but as normal playable units/features; if they are to be implemented via the spellbook, though, I guess it would be a lot easier to manage their development as actual elements of the game. That said, I don't unfortunately know if the Edain Team can dispose of existing models and animations to use; nor do I honestly know if there are the right premises of time and intention to include the Huorns in the Mod in the first place.

Nevertheless, unless an opposite statement of the developers, this proposal undoubtedly seems to be very promising. It obviously needs to be polished a bit and, certainly, other people's opinions on the matter will definitely be of more help in the conceiving of the whole concept.

[Shadowlord]

Personally I would be satisfied to have the developers provide their own comments on this forum. I love all the suggestions and ideas being discussed on this forum don't get me wrong but it would be nice to see the developers at least discuss their views on the changing of Spellbook powers.


Thank you guys for your comments and ideas, it's really helpful for me to know that my opinion on Spellbooks is shared among the Edain community.

P.S I love the Huorn concept as well.

EDIT: I also want to provide updates on my new thoughts for the changes that I suggested.

1. I am a huge fan of the Huorn concept, I am all on board for that. Great suggestion.

2. Mordor's Arrow Volley removal suggestion for me was mostly a personal nitpick. It just always felt off to me as a Mordor Spellbook power, if the team was willing to replace Mordor's lone tower power in the earlier updates, it would make sense that they replace the Arrow Volley power with something more Mordor themed. Especially if its related to trolls, trolls need some buffs considering how orc-centric Mordor currently is. Still the Edain team has higher priorities, for me Lothorlien's spellbook change is more important since three of the factions in the game had Eagle Summon, also Lothorlien can summon an eagle through Radagast.

3. It was an error on my part but I forgot that all the factions are suppose to have their own weather spell. Rohan's Cloud Break is fine theme and lore wise but I feel like the effects of Rohan's Cloud break should be different than Gondor's for the sake of variety.

4. The Dwarf lone tower was mostly a nitpick, it has a different model and fits the Dwarf's building focused theme, so if it doesn't get updated I will be ok with it.

I updated the survey, I apologize if anyone doesn't like the changes I made, so feel free to change your vote accordingly if you like but I have updated the survey to better fit the opinions of the community.

[kmogon]

The Huorns are probably the most appropriate candidate. They were proposed in the past, as far as I remember, but as normal playable units/features; if they are to be implemented via the spellbook, though, I guess it would be a lot easier to manage their development as actual elements of the game.

I thimk the best option for Huorn is to use Watcher animation ( this guy which guard gates to moria if sb didn't know ). It's just to replace his big head with equal big tree , change
Tentacles with roots nad do sth with eating animation ( maybe just huorns take their victims between their roots to crush them ). And I'm too for improve radagast skill - it can be overpowered but edain team can always rise its cost .

[Walküre]

Personally I would be satisfied to have the developers provide their own comments on this forum. I love all the suggestions and ideas being discussed on this forum don't get me wrong but it would be nice to see the developers at least discuss their views on the changing of Spellbook powers.

Based on my experience so far, I can assure you that the Edain Team reads most of the proposals that are suggested here, even if they don't reply to every comment all the time. There is not a fixed and known custom that implies that they have to do it. Obviously, it's always desirable if they do it, so that anyone is able to know precisely the elements of a concept that should or should not be adjusted and corrected.

Nevertheless, while waiting for a useful response from the developers, those interested in debating an idea ought to continue to do so, in order to structure and define the very concept even more (Moderators like me and other ones on this forum exactly have the duty to help people in dealing with these matters, until some answers from the highest authorities are eventually provided). The Edain Team is in fact very likely to intervene once a proposal has been developed enough to be considered carefully 

Besides, Shadowlord, remember that posting multiple consecutive comments within 24 hours is not permitted by the forum rules. You can simply edit your own comments, if you want to add something more. I removed your second post and edit the first one myself.

[Shadowlord]

"Besides, Shadowlord, remember that posting multiple consecutive comments within 24 hours is not permitted by the forum rules. You can simply edit your own comments, if you want to add something more. I removed your second post and edit the first one myself."
[/quote]

Sorry that was a mistake on my part. Thank you very much for fixing my post.

[Julio229]

I think that to replace Eagles in Lothlorien, something like Dorwinion units would be neat. I miss having those in the mod, and would like to have them in some way. I don't feel they can be good enough for a 7 power points spell, though.

Edit: Huorns would be better, now that I think, but I wouldn't dislike any of the ideas that have been given in this thread.

[Amandil7]

I love the Huorn idea too Makes sense lore-wise, plus yes the eagles really do need to go!

[WarOfTheRingVeteran]

Oh wow. This huorn idea is really nice. I'm all for it.

I found this image https://s5.postimg.io/68w5ms6xz/Huorn.jpg and I have no idea where is it from, when was it posted, where was it posted, whose is it, but I think it could use as an inspiration for models, if it ever comes to that.

[Garlodur]

I agree firstly with taking the Eagles away from Lothlorien, or at least improving Radagast's Eagle form.
I remember that his 'Eagle Strike' ability is not comparable in terms of continuous availibility to his form on foot that has the ability to spawn bushes that impede enemy movement while slighlty hurting them too. The latter ability has a low cooldown that makes it useful during the whole length of his summon. The first has a long cooldown that, combined with the vulnerability Eagles have against arrows, makes it almost of single use during the summon. I believe this cooldown should be reduced significantly or replaced with a permanent summon of a single Eagle.

Second, I believe the Huorns are a perfect candidate for the empty spot on the third row of the spell book. Lothlorien already has a link to Fangorn through the the Entmoot on the settlements, something that was probably elaborated in the topic concerning the introduction of Huorns as recruitable units at the Entmoot. I don't remember for sure.

Anyhow, I think the implementation of the Huorns in the Spell Book could be compared to the Watcher in the Water Spell that the Goblins dispose of in the sense that it could shut down enemy movement through key areas on the map while also doing decent damage. This type of ability fits the theme of Lorien being a harrassing faction because of their high unit damage and movement speed: along with the Streams of Mirkwood (if I remember the name correctly) this spell gives the faction an alternative to crowd control. This is the role the the Eagles are currently taking up, so in those terms it would not be a significant chamge to the Spell Book.

The best way to portray Huorns would probably indeed be to make use of the Watcher's animations, but scaled down very much and with a tree as the centre. This should be duplicated so that a forest is created through which units can walk. To kind of cover up the clunkiness of the animations if they don't fit so well, the upper leaves and branches could block the player from seeing what happens down in the forest of Huorns.

I realised that Huorns can kind of move around if they are forced to, or that's the impression I got from the book and film. This aspect would be hard to fit in the summon, and it's the only disadvantage of trading in the Eagles for the Huorn Forest, as it has zero maneuvrability. However, this is made up with the fact that the Huorn Forest is much better at locking down a location on the map than the Eagles, even if they cannot move.

I hope this was helpful for the continuation of this discussion. I believe the upcoming Spell  Book changes will give the Edain Mod another boost forward.

[Shadowlord]

Thank you for your reply.  And yes, hopefully the developers will post a comment on what Spellbook changes they plan to do in the future. We can only hope.

[Canis carcharothias]

I realised that Huorns can kind of move around if they are forced to, or that's the impression I got from the book and film. This aspect would be hard to fit in the summon, and it's the only disadvantage of trading in the Eagles for the Huorn Forest, as it has zero maneuvrability. However, this is made up with the fact that the Huorn Forest is much better at locking down a location on the map than the Eagles, even if they cannot move.

"there is a great power in them ,and they seem able to wrap themselves in shadow: it’s difficult to seethem moving. But they do. They can move very quickly, if they are angry. You stand still looking at the weather, maybe, or listening to the rustling of the wind, and then suddenly you find that you are in the middle of a wood with great groping trees all around you"

Yes, they move. The shadow wrapping is perfect for replacing the summon dust cloud. 

[Shadowlord]

http://www.moddb.com/mods/edain-mod/videos/huorn/#6194625

We finally got our HUORNS!!! YAY!

Let's hope they replace Mordor's Arrow Volley in the next patch.

[Odysseus]

Why would they replace Mordor's Arrow Volley? It's unique among the other Arrow Volleys. If anything, the Arrow Volleys of other factions might change, but not from Mordor.

[Shadowlord]

Why would they replace Mordor's Arrow Volley? It's unique among the other Arrow Volleys. If anything, the Arrow Volleys of other factions might change, but not from Mordor.

Because Arrow Volley doesn't fit the mass army aesthetic of Mordor, nor the themes of Mordor in general.  Arrow volley is intended mostly to small groups of kill weaker units but a good Mordor player typically doesn't need a mass damage spellbook power since they usually have greater numbers anyway.

In terms of how Arrow Volley is unique, perhaps it could be used for a Rhun/Harad faction if said faction is ever added in the future but personally I don't think Arrow Volley fits Mordor that well.

In conclusion I think Mordor's Arrow Volley power should be replaced with something that fits Mordors mass army theme, something that fits the feel of the faction better.

[-DJANGO-]

+1