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Edain 4.4: General Feedback

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Walküre:
While one could justify the presence of Mirkwood as independent faction via referring to lore-related reasons, the gameplay (that is, the boundaries that tie the whole game together) just doesn't permit to do that. Necro has already addressed the main points, but if you want other more insightful explanations, I'm totally glad to provide you with them.

1. As far as I know, there aren't so many complaints about the current implementation of Mirkwood. The Edain Community is thus rather satisfied with what the game offers, and people are generally conscious of the reasons why the system ought to remain unaltered, unless one is willing to disrupt the whole faction of Lothlórien. Surely, it's possible that there are some players who don't like the current subfaction structure, but I can guarantee you that they are the minority.

2. The Dwarven mechanics are unique because they exactly belong solely to the Dwarves. Applying this feature for Lothlórien/Mirkwood would not be reasonable and would devalue the great differentiation of the faction considerably. Due to technical implications, the Dwarven system binds the factions involved (the ones available as an initial choice) to have the same spellbook and, most importantly, the same structures. Otherwise, things wouldn't work in different ways. While we could theoretically accept to have the same spells (that kind of represent both the realms), having identical buildings is simply not acceptable. That would necessarily mean that either the structures of Lothlórien (totally based on the cinematographic concepts of LOTR) or the halls of the Woodland Realm (totally based on the Hobbit trilogy) should be gone. Both eventualities are thus out of question, given that the atmosphere of the cinematographic trilogies is a paramount property of the Edain Mod. Renouncing it would severely harm the whole ensemble, and that's why we don't want to opt for that solution.

3. In a conceptual perspective, since the very heart of the Edain Mod lies in the events and significance of the War of the Ring (the timeline in which both Lothlórien and Mirkwood are set, by the way), it would be contradictory to have three Elven factions in the game, as the might of the Elves has constantly been waning during the disenchanted Third Age and the apex of their splendour had been inexorably lost after the sorrowful wars against Sauron in the Second Age (and the departure of the last High King of the Noldor). Men are to take the lead in contesting the Evil, for they are destined to rule Middle-earth in the years after the defeat of Sauron; the game shall thus probably end up having 3/4 human factions, depending on the final decision regarding the two new factions to add (Misty Mountains excluded). One of the greatest qualities of the characterisation of the Elves is exactly the one that envisages them as a race that is slowly fading throughout the grey years of the Third Age, albeit being guardians of the most ancient and majestic arts that exist in Middle-earth. In a gameplay perspective: quality over quantity. This is what symbolises their inner nature.

4. Another binding technical limitation: there is space left only for two more factions in the game. The Evil Men are very likely to constitute an own faction and the other new faction is yet to be announced (even though the Community has come up with a quite structured proposal). Mirkwood is not on the radar of the common consensus.

5. And here we are with another significant argument to take into account very carefully. As Necro pointed out clearly, an independent Mirkwood wouldn't dispose (at the current state of things) of enough proper elements to be regarded as a regular faction in the first place. That is, there aren't enough unique upgrades, heroes, structures, spells or units to provide Mirkwood with the basic requirements (gameplay and balance) which every faction should consist of. Speaking about the references to the films, that situation would necessarily force us to make usage of totally fictional material, with the concrete effect of 'watering down' this hypothetical faction and departing too much from the cinematographic feeling. Fictional content is well justified in a context as Angmar and there it exactly has its logic; that wouldn't be the case of Mirkwood though. Personally, I am very sceptical about loose fictional additions, as they often seem to clash with the whole cinematographic essence of the game. Between the two, films naturally have a higher status.

In light of all these arguments, I would recommend you try to look at the whole picture and widen your sight by bearing all the mentioned boundaries in mind. I hope you will understand that it's imperative that things be maintained as they are now. The current presence of Mirkwood might not be perfect, but it's undoubtedly the best compromise they could have conceived. A good deal better than all the other alternatives, that would really devalue (if not disrupt) things and not improve them. Mirkwood being a subfaction both indicates the cultural bond existing between the Elves of the woods (Sindar and, most importantly, the Avari) and the independence of the realm of Mirkwood, as Thranduil had chosen the path of isolationism, when shadows began to awaken in Dol Guldur.


--- Zitat von: The_Necromancer0 am 30. Jan 2017, 00:06 ---After all, if my memories are correct it is only thanks to the joint effort of the elves of Lorien and Mirkwood that the walls of Dol Guldur were thrown down.

--- Ende Zitat ---

Celeborn and Thranduil dealt with the military aspects and with the enemy hosts. But it's only Galadriel who tore down walls, cleansed the woods and purified that eerie (still enchanted by the memory of Sauron) fortress  8-)

Gandalf7000:
I have to agree with the main proposal about the Veterans of the Last Alliance. I played with them some time ago and yeah, you get them only at very late game. The max level I could get with them was 7 or 9 (don't remember correctly) and then they died. I like the suggestion about them coming out already level 5 or so. Also I like the suggestion about ability that they can't be walked through - that would give Imladris some enemy blocking/defensive feature so that they can counter massive spam of Mordor or Isengard. On the other hand - since the Veterans are late game units, you already have a normal army by that time and you move to destroy enemy rather than defend some of your troops. I agree that something must be done with the Veterans but my thoughts are split on the ability suggestion.

About Mirkwood: well DieWalkure and Necro already expressed solid arguments and I can only agree with them. It is true, yes that the both realms are quite different but imagine, If there was something that would threaten to destroy everything what is good in Middle Earth (like Sauron or Melkor) it is likely that the elves would join forces to survive.

Pentaquark:
Very well, you make a compelling case on the subject of mirkwood.
It's easy for me to understand now why mirkwood doesn't have it's own faction.

I remain in the hope that you might consider quality of life changes to make them feel more rewarding.  xD

Walküre:
Personally, I think that Mirkwood already fares quite well in a global perspective. When the units of the Woodland Realm received (in one of the previous updates) their own new and unique abilities, I guess the overall value of the subfaction increased substantially. Nevertheless, if the developers deem necessary to change something about it, they will certainly consider the case and then come up with a solution  ;)


--- Zitat von: Pentaquark am 31. Jan 2017, 05:06 ---Very well, you make a compelling case on the subject of mirkwood.

--- Ende Zitat ---

Yes, we can say it's quite compelling indeed  :P

Éomer Éadig:
I do agree with Pentaquark about the subject of the Veterans of the Last Alliance. It is extremely cumbersome to get them to a high (by their standards) level. Perhaps the leveling requirement could be set lower?

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