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Edain 4.4: General Feedback

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Walküre:

--- Zitat von: DrHouse am 25. Nov 2016, 02:32 ---hello! I am new, thanks for your great work :), amazing!

--- Ende Zitat ---

Welcome to Modding Union! It's great to see that we have another DrHouse pleasing us with his presence  ;)

Yes, now only Ring heroes can pick the One Ring up. It's one of the recent innovations brought by the 4.4 patch, while also being a means via which even the AI can make usage of this feature, thus resolving a long-time issue.

DrHouse:

--- Zitat von: DieWalküre am 25. Nov 2016, 14:46 ---
--- Zitat von: DrHouse am 25. Nov 2016, 02:32 ---hello! I am new, thanks for your great work :), amazing!

--- Ende Zitat ---

Welcome to Modding Union! It's great to see that we have another DrHouse pleasing us with his presence  ;)

Yes, now only Ring heroes can pick the One Ring up. It's one of the recent innovations brought by the 4.4 patch, while also being a means via which even the AI can make usage of this feature, thus resolving a long-time issue.

--- Ende Zitat ---

ahah thank you :)
and also thanks DaGeggo!

Pentaquark:
Hey guys,
I'm just a regular BFME fan who used to play the game back in the day and tried out Edain 4.4.1 last week.

I would like to give some feedback regarding a couple things that I did not like.
If this post comes across as negative, please remember that I liked the mod a lot concerning most things, I am merely focusing on the stuff I think could be improved on.

Also note that everything I will discuss should not be taken in the context of balance, but rather as how the game feels/flows and how rewarding it is.

1)
The first big thing I did not like are the Veterans of the last Alliance.
This unit has the ability to level up to level 20, which I assume was to make it feel powerful (it's a heroic unit after all). And before I tried them, that worked for me. I wanted to try them out and level them up.

... except it's not that easy. In fact, it is really freakin hard. Not every unit gains experience as fast as others, even if they require the same amount. For instance, it is MUCH easier to level up an archer unit, simply because they don't have to struggle with unit clumping and target aquisition as badly.

In fact, I even took it so far to start a game specifically dedicated to level them up. It takes forever, even if you have a mindless ki spamming shitty units at you.

The next issue is that even if you manage to do that, it is still very likely that you lose them. This is because in bfme, regular soldies are essentially cannon fodder. They suck against archers and horses and any form of siege (if they are slow).

This is sadly amplified by the fact that veterans of the last alliance are essentially a worse version of Rivendell swordsmen. They cost a lot more while not having an ability that speeds them up, which is HUGE. Mobility is key, that's why uruk soldiers were the best soldiers in bfme1, by far. Part of the problem here is that mobility partly solves the problem of target aquisition. It happens much less frequently by default that a significant number of your soldiers idle rather than attacking, simply because they were able to cut a corner.
It's also important for being able to retreat your highly treasured troops.
I guess this was a big part of why the unit was antifun to me, the realization that it is just straight up inferior to a different unit that costs less than half the price.

If you ask me how I would change this, I would probably tell you to rethink the leveling system. It's unrealistic for a unit of that type to reach such a level anyway (which makes it frustrating).
It also doesn't make a shred of sense thematically. The soldiers experience has to be reflected somehow - yes - but why does he spawn level 1 then, if he has been around for ages and fought in wars that his companions didn't?
It would make more sense if the unit would just have the same levels as everyone else, but have a higher spawn level.

However, I would go in a different direction entirely. The role of such a soldier in a battle would not be to attack and deal tremendous amounts of damage but rather to protect more valuable troops like archers/siege weapons. They already kind of have a move like that in that they cannot be trampled.
However ideally, the concept of a last "line of defense" is good. How about you add a feature that these units have a stance in which they cannot be walked through? This way they cannot be surrounded by other infantry if you place them strategically (for instance to hold the entrance of a camp).


2)
The second big thing is the mirkwood faction.
I would like to raise 2 big points here, one based on gameplay and the other on lore.
Gameplay wise it sucks being a player that likes mirkwood units in this mod. You have to spend like 10 minutes of your time every single game as well as units and ressources just to aquire an outpost so you can play with the units you intended to get anyways. Like really. It's nothing short of antifun.
It also doesn't make any sense from the point of view of the lore. Mirkwood elves are not a subfaction to lorien/lothlorien elves in any way whatsoever. They are very different, arguably more different towards the other elve factions as the different factions of dwarfs in this game. This is because many wood elves did not answer the call for the west and are much "wilder" than the noldor.
In my opinion, the best solution would be to apply a similar system as you did with the dwarfs, so that you can decide at the beginning of the game which faction you enjoy and decide thus.
This would also be very healthy to all mirkwood units from a balance point of view. They get played more regularly and in a more controlled, less situational environment. Like how do you even balance an expensive champion like Thranduil that you have to buy an outpost for AND who spawns without a mount? It takes forever until you can buy him and you have to put in even more work to level him up so he becomes useful. By any rights he would have to be broken once you archieved that. I'm not saying that he is/ is not, or that he should be, but rather to illustrate why it's hard to balance with the current system.

The_Necromancer0:
I can't say much about veterans of the last alliance because I don't play Imladris much, however I'll just give you the standard answer about Mirkwood getting its own faction. It won't happen for a couple reasons both from a lore perspective and a gameplay perspective. First, there isn't enough about Mirkwood to justify a full faction, the hero roster is limited and they lack a diversity of units/buildings ect... From a gameplay perspective, that would take away a great outpost from Lorien, creating the need for a replacement, in addition planning out Mirkwood as a full faction would require a full set of unique buildings, which because of the lack of lore is complicated. Second, and most important of all, the spellbook, it is impossible to have a unique spellbook for each faction if the dwarven system is used in addition to the unit and building needing to look very similar in order to avoid putting too much strain on the game. And finally, the Dwarven system would lose its uniqueness.

Sub-factions are not meant to show the faction they represent as vassals to the main faction but more as allies (in case of the good faction, can't say the same about evil factions). After all, if my memories are correct it is only thanks to the joint effort of the elves of Lorien and Mirkwood that the walls of Dol Guldur were thrown down.

Pentaquark:
I don't really see the issue with "uniqueness". The dwarven situation with multiple subfactions isn't unique to middle-earth, so I don't see why the system should be unique in the mod.

However, mirkwood doesn't have to get their own faction entirely. I am sure you guys will work out something smart in order to make them more accessible, addressing the current situation which is antifun for many.

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