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Ultimate Skill Cup: Discussion and Feedback

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Walküre:
I opened this thread to give anyone the concrete opportunity to provide constructive feedback on the recent Ultimate Skill Cup, on the organisation of the events and on the handling of the very tournament by the people in-chief of doing that.

As I felt that a peaceful and useful debate no longer had the right premises to continue in the previous topic, I thus decided to reset everything and start again. Therefore, you are consequently and sincerely invited to express yourselves in decent manners and contribute meaningfully to the development of the debate (even when you are to affirm negative thoughts): no one is then to be put on a pyre and be slain, if you think that there were issues in the competition. I'm sure we are all mature enough to discern the just path in dealing with this thread, and to find a balance between criticism and suggestions for possible improvements.

Contrary to what is stated in the other thread, I hope that Elite will opt to join the discussion too, given that he's the one who took care of everything related to this tournament; and it would honestly be quite unfair if he couldn't defend his positions and reply to other people's remarks. I hope the debate will focus also on giving advices, in hopes that future initiatives of this sort are to still be planned in the future.

The rules of the forum entitle me to ensure that the above-mentioned conditions are successfully met. Should there be the need to, I will edit the posts that don't respect these guidelines and even delete them if the circumstances require it. I can only rely on your co-operation and well-intentioned will of making something positive out of all of this.

Idrial12:
Thank you Walküre for opening the new thread.

Even though I am going to repeat myself I will shortly write down in bulletpoints what was in my opinion wrong about the CUP:

in general:
- The CUP was scheduled for 6/7 August but was also played on the following weekend
- The first matches were delayed by around 4 hours
- The Semi finals were postponed by 1 full day 1 hour before the original start
- No one ever knew when he had to play. You had to stay online the whole time
- There was no thread about playing times, even though that is of interest to everyone (players and viewers)

The "final":
- I was expected to play the final vs Goodfella immediately after my Semi final vs Elite Kryptik (nobody can concentrate on playing edain for 4hours)

- I couldn't play because I had an important appointment the next morning and Elite didn't shift the final even though I was the rightful final participant

- Yes he offered me to nominate someone but firstly how should I spontanously find a "champion" for me and secondly it is not fair to let someone else play a final. (Its like I didn't study for the test I will let my bigger sister write it for me --> cheating)

- Elite chose Phyton (I think he didn't even participate the tournament and I don't even know him) to play the final for me instead of shifting the final to next weekend

I am pretty sure that a lot of others see that I was deprived. What would be the problem about shifting the cup 1 more weekend? Don't you guys want to see a real final instead of a match "Goodfella vs random Edain Player?"

It also felt weird that Elite said he will not postpone the cup (even though he did 2 times already) just after I won against him... (I do not want to impute something it just feels weird)


How should I manage to have spare time for a match that was postponed 2 times? When I registered for the cup I made sure I am free on 6/7 August. I canceled meetings on 13th August just to find out the semi finals are postponed. And than I am requested to play 4hours edain in a row? until midnight? With an Appointment the next morning that has been set a long time ago?

I am really sorrowful about the course of the tournament :(

Greetings Idrial :( :( :(

Odysseus:
You won against Elite? Interesting. I'd love to see the replay, where can I find it? It's not on Kryptik's channel, that's why I ask :P.

I think this is the first time Elite and Daemon organised a tournament, right? If so, it's a little naive to expect the tournament organisation to go without any issues. Not meant in an offensive way, of course. Even the bigger cups occasionally experience some hiccups, causing people to forfeit, leave, be replaced etc. I get the impression that most of these situations occured during the last few moments of the tournament. It should always be made clear in advance.

However, if what Idrial claims is true, I'd be pretty upset myself too. I hope that all these issues that were experienced will be taken into consideration for the organisation of the next cup, so that they can prevented from occuring then.

Playing times rendered in some kind of bracket system is the basis of organising a tournament usually. I'd be surprised if that wasn't done this time around, you can usually find a generator online or make one yourself at home with some paper scraps. Try DOW II Elite mod, they organise small weekly and larger monthly rumble tournaments where people give small donations to organise the bracket system and grant prizes to the winners, like games etc. It's very well done. Casters and streamers usually have a bracket system including times to show to their viewers.

Finally, concerning Idrial's situation, I see two ways to grant some compensation:
1. Explain your situation to the team and hopefully, with a bit of luck, ET will help you with your current issue, because it is quite clear to see that you really wanted to be part of the beta testing team and being replaced by a random player, or one that is not of your choosing, is really frustrating. It is, after all, in the best of interests for both the organisers and the players of the tournament that the experience of the participants proceeds as smoothly as possible.
2. Redo the finals sometime in the future and decide from there.

I hope I could contribute to the post in some way. Please try to keep it civil as has been said.

Kind regards.

Sawman:
As a player and a commentator for the tournament I felt the way it was set up was fine 30 min time limit was what most games went to, we never had to end a game early. The hiccups at the start were understandable first time hosts for a tournament it happens.

As for Idrials case I can understand that you would have felt cheated but I was there for the semi finals and the finals, and everyone but you was ready to go we tried to explain to you that no one else wanted to wait a whole other week just to play one match, but I've seen you play and I have played with your replacement Python many times and in my opinion you two are on the same level of skill so I really don't think the game would have gone any different (no offense)

Oerall I liked the tournament and that I had a chance to be apart of it hopefully next time they can work out the kinks and it can go a lot smoother next time

Elite KryPtik:
Regarding the bracket, one was indeed setup, and we stuck to it as best we could. Also, the games of myself against Idrial will be up on my channel later this week, I can't upload things instantaeneously when I now have a job to work as well. Finally, regarding playing times, I posted multiple videos on it on my youtube channel, and I was very communicative with the skype group.
When I first created the tournament, I asked very cearly that everybody give me their skype details, not only for interviews but so I could create a skype group. If you had not completely ignored this request Idrial, you would have been far more up to date on all of the happenings within the tournament. I also share the sentiment of Sawman that the end result would have been the same.

Here are all of my posts explaining what went wrong with the tournament. I'm not going to continue repeating myself after this. This is my last post on this issue, and I think this entire thing has been blown way out of proportion. Keep in mind these are directly copy pasted from this thread: https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,33763.0.html
So some things may seem out of place on this new thread.

1st post:
--- Zitat --- "Your not telling the full story here Idrial, and it would be far better to take this up with me in PMs rather than making a public problem about it. I did the best I could to meet the scheduling needs of everybody, but we had some technical difficulties which we couldn't have predicted, and some of the scheduling got messed up. Additionally, you brought up the semi finals, DevilsDaemon had an issue IRL that we had NO ability to predict or schedule around, so we had to move it to the Sunday.

Finally, regarding your actual matches with GoodFella, I asked you inside the gameranger lobby if there was anybody you would like to fill in for you, informed you we would not be waiting a full week to play your game, as we are unable to do it weekedays, and finally I asked you to tell me of a preferred fill in player. You refused to answer me, and so I did the best I could with what I had at hand. If you were so worried about it, could you not have just stayed up an extra hour to play your games with GoodFella? 2 players of your caliber would have made the games go quick.

I apologize, but it was either Python play and fill in for you, or we have you forfeit for a no-show on your game, and GoodFella win by default. Which would you have preferred?"
--- Ende Zitat ---
2nd post:
--- Zitat --- "I have already agreed on the poor organization, we shall do better in the future. We did do a schedule and had originally planned on sticking to it, but because of technical difficulties we were delayed by an hour and a half. I had been in contact with DevilsDaemon, and he had said to me everything was good, then come the day tournament everything clearly was NOT good. So that was something out of my control.

For the semi finals rescheduling, as I have already said, we planned on doing it Saturday, but were delayed by an issue IRL, which I didn't find out about until it was nearly time to start streaming Saturday, so we rescheduled for Sunday. I told everybody everywhere I could, including the official Skype Group which Idrial declined to join, as she refused to give me her skype details. Lord of Mordor even made a post about it in the news section to let people know it was delayed.

Finally, regarding Idrials match, I will repeat myself: She declined to show up. All of the other rescheduling of players matches were INVOLUNTARY on our part, due to unforseen circumstances. We never once, during the entire tournament, rescheduled a players time by choice. I told Idrial that if she didn't play we were going to get a substitute player to fill in so we could finish the tournament, and asked her to either stay and play or name a substitute, both of which she declined to do. I did the best I could with what I had available."
--- Ende Zitat ---
3rd and final post:
--- Zitat --- "I understand you couldn't play Idrial, but that doesn't mean that we just change the rules and wait an entire week for a single match. The alternative to a substitute player would be disqualification, and so because I tried to get a good player to fill in for you I'm being criticized. If you are going to dispute the replacement player I had available to play for you, we can go with the alternative of disqualification due to a no show for your game.

Feel free to move the replies to a different thread DieWalkure, I am done discussing this, period. If people want to lampoon me and get me banned from the forums they can go right ahead, I did the best I could at the time, and it didn't come out as I would have liked it to."
--- Ende Zitat ---

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