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Autor Thema: Dagor Dagorath: Ascension of Melkor  (Gelesen 2779 mal)

Elite KryPtik

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Dagor Dagorath: Ascension of Melkor
« am: 2. Okt 2016, 21:43 »
As promised, here is the first game idea for the Dagor Dagorath setting. This game would concern the ascension of Melkor, following his breaking of the Doors of Night, stealth intrusion into the Timeless Halls, and stealing of a part of the Secret Fire from Eru.

Now, I have already written in small part about this in the main setting, but obviously there is a lack of dialogue except for Melkor's short speech when he claims the Secret Fire. So this would have to follow main characters concerned, being Melkor, Sauron, Saruman, Fraule, Geldorin and Horinthe, in addition to Eru and some Ainur in the Timeless Halls, who would be original characters.

This game would consist of Melkor and his companions breaking the Doors of Night, and then swiftly and in stealth ascending to the Timeless Halls, where Melkor's companions would create a distraction(or several) to draw out Eru, who Melkor would then ambush Eru and steal part of the Secret Fire from him. Then, the scenario would finish with a battle between Melkor and Eru, and Melkor fleeing to start creation of his army of death.

So for this scenario, there is much discussion to be had before the game proper can begin. We have to fill a fairly significant number of players, and we have to determine several things. First off, how does Melkor manage to get into the Timeless Halls without Eru knowing? Now obviously, the entire Dagor Dagorath setting goes off the fact that Eru is actually not Omnipotent or Omniscient, because if he were then Melkor could never get the Secret Fire to begin with. Even assuming that Eru is not all-knowing however, there would doubtless be an incredibly strong guard upon the Timeless Halls, which Melkor would have to breach in stealth without alerting any of its guardians or Eru.

So that is a big question, and the other question is the breaking of the Doors of Night, how it is managed and indeed where they are located. DieWalküre and myself are divided on this, as I always interpreted them as being physically located somewhere inside Valinor, while DieWalküre considered them as ethereal, located somewhere in the sky or aether, basically like an entrance to Heaven. So that is a major question, and then the other is how the Doors are broken by Fraule, Geldorin and Horinth without raising any kind of alarm about their actions.

So, take it away with the discussion, hopefully we can resolve these 2 main points quickly and then get on to the game :) Regarding the players, I will take the role of Eru for this one, which leads that what is needed are Evil characters and a couple of Ainur who save Eru from Melkor's overwhelming power.
« Letzte Änderung: 3. Okt 2016, 15:25 von DieWalküre »
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

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Re: Dagor Dagorath Setting: Acension of Melkor
« Antwort #1 am: 2. Okt 2016, 23:55 »
I'd like to take the role of Sauron, but I suppose there isn't much surprise in that decision.

For the doors I am myself quite divided but more from a storytelling point. Having physical doors doors is much easier and interactions between players with it are smoother especially in role-playing. But ethereal doors are much more fun to play with although more complex. I think a possible compromise would be a ethereal doors linked to a point in Valinor (sort of like a portal) where the doors themselves cannot be seen but rather it is possible to discern the frame. Like this both concepts can be played with the frame being the physical side (cracking, crumbling, breaking) and the portall being the ethereal side (flashes of lights, thunder, distortion in space).

Melkor's entry into the Timeless Halls should be done through disguise, perhaps he disguises his physical appearance appearing as a minor Ainur, that would create some interesting conflict as Melkor is forced to be treated as inferior. Another possibility ties back to the creation of the world (sung into existence), Melkor has always gone against that harmony, what if he joins in so as to fade into the background, concealing his true nature. Both possibilities combined would give Melkor a disguise both physical and magical.

For the actual door breaking I think we should also tie it in with that very musical theme that is present within Tolkien's work. This still leaves many possibilities: did they play a discord? Did they sync their harmony with that of the door's? Did they play opposing harmonies to shatter the door? Food for thought.

I'm truly looking forward to these scenarios seeing how much work you've poured into the backstory and creating each faction. Can't wait to start slaying some stuff  xD

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Re: Dagor Dagorath Setting: Acension of Melkor
« Antwort #2 am: 3. Okt 2016, 00:27 »
I'm surprised you don't want to take the role of Melkor himself Necro :P

Yeah, I'm not so good with the ethereal stuff, so I think I will leave the discussion for that up to others who are more interested in it than myself. I really don't care how Melkor breaks the doors and steals a piece of the Secret Fire, as long as he is able to do it. So, let the Wise ones of the RPG forum debate this matter until agreement is met, I say!

1 thing to note on my end, the portrait I will paint with my first post in the game itself as Eru will be that he has become less watchful under the belief that all wars are now ended, which will help Melkor infiltrate the Timless Halls. So keep that in mind when discussing how Melkor gets in ;)
« Letzte Änderung: 3. Okt 2016, 00:31 von Elite KryPtik »
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

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Re: Dagor Dagorath Setting: Ascension of Melkor
« Antwort #3 am: 3. Okt 2016, 15:21 »
According to the Book of Lost Tales of Christopher Tolkien, the Doors of Night are placed in the uttermost western borders of the World, in the west of the West itself. As far as I recall from the rough (and earlier) version of the Silmarillion though, not only is the above-mentioned fact not explained, but there are a lot of hints and reminders that suggest that the Doors might be located in the ethereal borders between the sky of Eä and the Void; there are in fact many references to Eärendil guarding those gates in the starred skies and the prophecy tells that Melkor shall break through and then descend from the sidereal Air to Arda. Eä and the Void are completely different dimensions due to their specific properties: Eä is the physical universe where Matter and Time coexist as in real life and the Void (as the Timeless Halls) is a spaceless and timeless dimension (Matter and Time don't exist or they exist in different forms). Nevertheless, I don't really mind so much choosing one of the two options. I guess we could stick to Elite's view and so place the Doors of Night in the far westernmost and mysterious territories of Valinor.

I would nonetheless like Eärendil to be appointed as the guardian of the Doors, like the sources indicate (this is also the interpretation of Tolkien Gateway). Then, once Melkor is out of his timeless gaol, we have to clarify how the dark Vala exactly reaches the Timeless Halls as there is theoretically no passage nor a way to return to the sanctity of the ancestral Heaven (for the Ainur, Elves, Men and the other races equally).

Therefore, I kind of came up with what may be a possible scenario to follow. It's mainly centred on the fact that Varda is the most powerful Vala after Melkor: that is, she is granted the dominion of Light in all the universe (her major creations were the ancient far Stars in the sky, the Two Lamps, the Two Trees, the Sun and the Moon) and Light is exactly the hegemonic element compared to Air (Manwë), Water (Ulmo), Matter (Aulë) and Nature (Yavanna). Though the King of Arda is the most powerful in authority (Eru delegated to him the rule of the World and the leadership of the Ainur), Varda is surely the Vala who was actually blessed the most by Ilúvatar's powers and Tolkien says accordingly that her face is lit by the very radiance of the Timeless Halls.

On those premises, here it is the small passage I conceived.

Zitat
Though Melkor escapes and defeates the Mariner, he lacks the prowess to reach the forbidden dwelling of God (an immense task that not even the Valar can achieve). So, he seeks for the source of power that resembles the most the essence of Eru and its hallowed halls (the key of the deed): he catches Varda by surprise and momentarily absorbs a great amount of her light. Then, he destroys the Sun and the Moon too. His Darkness, the natural antithesis of Varda's Light, grows exponentially, thus permitting him to break the walls of Eä itself and storm into the Timeless Halls. Varda will take time to recover and she will be ready to fight only in the final clash in Valinor.

Secondary happening aside: since the physical dimension is now connected to Heaven, some other Ainur will descend to Valinor to aid their holy kind, attracted by the mourning of Nienna for the darkening of all skies of Arda and for the wounds of the Queen of the World. Only Varda's ancient Stars will remain as the last light of the Good.

About the breaking of the Doors, I reaffirm the points I have already discussed with Elite. The diminishing fate of the Free People in the Archangels and the Valar growing inexorably more and more weary of physical reality will cause the weakening of the structural solidity of those defences, alongside the vanishing of the Magic that kept them well closed.

As for the characters, I will probably choose multiple roles on Valinor's side, be they major or minor  :)

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Re: Dagor Dagorath: Ascension of Melkor
« Antwort #4 am: 28. Okt 2016, 07:12 »
Greetings, participants of this game. Are you satisfied with the development of the discussion about this chapter so far? Do you agree with the plot I suggested above, or do you feel like giving different indications? Whether we settle for starting the game or continuing the debate further, I personally am fine with both options. We have here all the space and time we need.

Of course, the progress of this chapter has been quite halted recently and no other people have been that interested to join us. Nevertheless, as I often point out, the RPG space responds to different logics of time and user involvement, if we compare it to the common public boards. Also, with the probable participation of Fine, there are currently four people taking care of this story; considering that the forum itself is really not bursting with activity recently and that not so many people might have the will (and skills) to get themselves involved in discussions of this sort, I deem four people quite a well start to begin with. Other users are probably more likely to participate once the game is to be established in the first place.

These are my personal considerations. Regardless of them, may I just say that I'm still very interested in this game, as it is of a different typology from the usual ones which this section is supposed to contain. That will definitely bring more differentiation in this board. And as we're currently getting to know, differentiation is not a bad thing  ;)

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Re: Dagor Dagorath: Ascension of Melkor
« Antwort #5 am: 28. Okt 2016, 08:15 »
Also, with the probable participation of Fine, there are currently four people taking care of this Story.

Sure, I'll join, but I'll definitely join the forces of Light ^^

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Re: Dagor Dagorath: Ascension of Melkor
« Antwort #6 am: 28. Okt 2016, 09:18 »
I'm all good with starting this game. Also, since no other wish to rule the forces of Evil, I will take care of all the evils in this first story. On the way if anybody wishes to take control of a character (apart from Sauron) they can simply state it and I will no longer manipulate the character.
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Re: Dagor Dagorath: Ascension of Melkor
« Antwort #7 am: 28. Okt 2016, 15:57 »
One worry I would have with Melkor taking Varda's power is that he should be getting into the Timless Halls through stealth. If he openly attacked before gaining the Secret Fire, Eru would lay the smackdown on him pretty quickly I am sure. He would have to break the Doors of Night, and then make his way through Valinor in stealth, perhaps attacking and stealing the power of Varda while she was isolated in some way, and then making his way to the timeless halls with his followers to carry out his ultimate plan.

Also, he would destroy the Sun and Moon after stealing the Secret Fire, as this would be an open declaration of war against Middle Earth. So my proposal is to have the 3 corrupted Maiar dispatch Earendil, freeing Melkor, Sauron and Saruman, and have Melkor steal the power of Varda in stealth to break into the Timeless Halls. Another thing which should probably be addressed is Tulkas, as we know he is responsible for beating Melkor in the first place, so I feel that Melkor would seek to incapacitate or cripple Tulkas if he could in any way.

I will be doing a promotion for the RPG forum on my channel this Sunday, I'm sure at least a few of my viewers will be interested in joining the game. So I would hold off until after that on starting the game.
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

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Re: Dagor Dagorath: Ascension of Melkor
« Antwort #8 am: 28. Okt 2016, 19:41 »
The fact that Varda is caught by surprise implicitly infers that Melkor's strike is a sudden and unexpected one. Henceforth, I agree that she needs to be isolated first, and then deprived of the only prowess that could match Ilúvatar's one in the physical dimension (at a minor extent). I'm also for the postponement of the destruction of the Sun and the Moon; interpreting their fall as the manifest and overt act of war is a very clever of an idea. I like it thoroughly  ;)

Varda's energies will nonetheless suffice to break the borders of Eä and reach the Timeless Halls. She is the source of all light after all (whether it be of the ancient Stars, of the two Trees or of their two remnants).

I will be doing a promotion for the RPG forum on my channel this Sunday, I'm sure at least a few of my viewers will be interested in joining the game. So I would hold off until after that on starting the game.

Take all time you need. I'm looking forward to seeing how this project is to develop.

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Re: Dagor Dagorath: Ascension of Melkor
« Antwort #9 am: 31. Okt 2016, 03:00 »
Just did the plug for the RPG Forum: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vI8NcIRkc9Y

Side note, feel free to join the steam group ;)
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

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Re: Dagor Dagorath: Ascension of Melkor
« Antwort #10 am: 31. Okt 2016, 10:18 »
Many thanks for the announcement and general endeavour, Elite  ;)

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Re: Dagor Dagorath: Ascension of Melkor
« Antwort #11 am: 31. Okt 2016, 12:47 »
I do want to add to one of the Dagon Dagorath games, however, I don't have the knowledge nor the interest to play anyone on Valinor's side.  With that said, if this game involves the resurrection of the Witch-King and the rest of the Nazgul, I will gladly role play as the Lord of the Nazgul himself. 

Totally not biased towards the forces of evil whatsoever.  What would ever give you that idea?  ;)

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Re: Dagor Dagorath: Ascension of Melkor
« Antwort #12 am: 31. Okt 2016, 13:13 »
I couldn't do anything else than welcome you in this game and forum, Haman. More people joining us definitely means merrier fun and active involvement.

Totally not biased towards the forces of evil whatsoever.  What would ever give you that idea?  ;)

As I and Fine are not biased towards the Light. No bias. None at all  8-)

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Re: Dagor Dagorath: Ascension of Melkor
« Antwort #13 am: 31. Okt 2016, 14:21 »
I'd like to point out that it seems that the Witch King does turn good, having broken from the influence of the One Ring.
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Re: Dagor Dagorath: Ascension of Melkor
« Antwort #14 am: 31. Okt 2016, 14:41 »
Good is a strong word.  After thousands of years being pretty much a slave of Sauron, I would say that he would turn less evil after being resurrected.  Also, keep in mind that the good guys rejected him from letting him help them against Sauron, so I doubt he likes them very much.
« Letzte Änderung: 31. Okt 2016, 15:07 von Hamanathnath »

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Re: Dagor Dagorath: Ascension of Melkor
« Antwort #15 am: 31. Okt 2016, 17:00 »
The Witch-king and the reborn Angmar are part of the League of the Unaffiliated, as Elite's lore tells. Though their fate is yet to be determined, the fact that they are not under Sauron's rule doesn't necessarily equal that they turned or could turn completely good. One could easily remain evil, even if not bound anymore to follow Melkor and his allies.

Haman was also referring to Valinor and its allies: the very Good. I don't know how the story is to develop, but, if I am to choose Valinor's side (and then define its acts in the conflict), I'm not going to treat Saruman or Angmar differently from what I would do in regards of Melkor; even less likely the idea of readmitting them among the Good's ranks. I would personally grant them a last opportunity to finally redeem, but only in the very end.

#IntransigencewithEvil

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Re: Dagor Dagorath: Ascension of Melkor
« Antwort #16 am: 31. Okt 2016, 22:51 »
The idea with the League of the Unaffiliated is that they are going to be developed by the players. Of them, The Witch King does lean the most towards good and desires peace, although he is still a very corrupted individual and struggles to cleanse himself of his past deeds, Ar-Pharazon is basically neutral and wants all the gods dead, and Saruman has the most evil delusions of grandeur and desire to rule Middle Earth through stealing some of the Secret Fire himself.

It really comes down to how people develop them, they are a bit of a wildcard. Obviously they are the weakest contenders in the Dagor Dagorath, having the smallest territory and armies, but they also hold their own because the main forces of Good and Evil expend so much against eachother, they sort of forget about the league.
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

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Re: Dagor Dagorath: Ascension of Melkor
« Antwort #17 am: 4. Nov 2016, 08:11 »
Alright, I think we have gained all the people we will be gaining. So I think its time for a role call. The major characters that need filling are:

Eru
Nameless Ainur who assist Eru
Melkor
Sauron
Saruman
Fraule, Geldorin and Horinth, Melkors corrupted Maiar who help him break the doors of night.

Minor characters who will either be killed or incapacited fairly quickly:
Earendil
Tulkas
Varda

I will take the role of Eru if that's ok with everyone, and I can also do the Ainur, so we preferably at least 5 people, 1 for all the minor characters as well as the 3 maiair, and then 4 for the rest of the evil characters. Or we could have somebody take control of all of Melkor's minions somebody take control of Melkor, and then somebody take control of the minor good characters. More would be better here I think though :)
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

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Re: Dagor Dagorath: Ascension of Melkor
« Antwort #18 am: 4. Nov 2016, 10:29 »
As I have mentioned previously I'd like to take control of Sauron. But if the need come I'll also take control of any forces of evil left without a master by the end of the role call. Of course, anybody can still pick any of the Evil characters if they wish (apart from Sauron), I'm just putting forward my candidacy incase nobody shows up in the end. :)
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Re: Dagor Dagorath: Ascension of Melkor
« Antwort #19 am: 4. Nov 2016, 12:03 »
I pick Varda. When she has her powers completely drained, I will probably take the part of the Ainur assisting Ilúvatar in the Timeless Halls. Though I couldn't be capable of coming up with suitable names in Quenya or in Valarin for them, I'm thinking about finding other solutions: like using descriptive titles, for example.

Of course, if someone willing to support the Good is interested in picking some of those Ainur as well, I will be more than happy to have additional auxiliaries on my own side  :)