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Unit and Hero Categories

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Garlodur:
This is looking like a good discussion with many people up to participate in it.

I agree with The_Necromancer0 that this deserves a separate topic though, in order to make the subject more distinct amongst other topics.


--- Zitat von: The_Necromancer0 am 11. Nov 2016, 18:15 ---Here's how I think we should do reorganize categories:
Each unit will have one of the 7 main categories:
-Swordsmen
-Pikemen
-Archer
-Cavalry
-Creature
-Siege
-Support
and in addition they will also gain, if necessary, one of the additional categories of either Elite or Heroic. A couple examples:
Tower Guards: Pikemen and Elite
Shadow Guard: Swordsmen and Heroic
Morgul Archer: Archers and Elite
Royal Guard: Cavalry and Heroic
Drummer Troll: Creature and Elite
ect...

--- Ende Zitat ---

I agree that this categorisation will help distinguishing units that come in groups/battalions of 5 to 20 units. The issue comes with Single units that are stronger than individual units in a battalion, a category under which all arguable fall (except those without attack possibilities like Elven Minstrels or Sorcerers).
However, I believe that Single units often transgress the boundaries of being Creature, Standard or Elite. The biggest problem is that a regular Mountain Troll starts out as a Standard Creature, compared to the Drummer Troll who is categorised by ET as an Elite Creature due to his price. A Mountain Troll can evolve to an Attack Troll, however, when buying his upgrades, which might classify him as an Elite Creature. Quite a tricky definition thus.

I would suggest that the Creature category is removed and that the secondary categorisation is extended with the Single Unit, since this is clearly what distinguishes these units from battalions and siege weapons.

An example:

Mordor Overseers: Support and Single
Lesser Wraith: Support and Single
Morgul Shadow: Single
Mountain Trolls: Single (and Siege)
Drummer Trolls: (Elite) Single
Mumak: (Elite) Single
Gorthaur's Werewolf: (Elite) Single

Uruk Berserker: Single
Mine Berserker: Single
Ugluk Scout: (Elite) Single

Thrall Master: Support and Single
Wight: Single
Werewolf: (Elite) Single

Elven Minstrel: Support and Single
Ent: (Elite) Single
Ash Ent: (Elite) Single
Beorning: Single

Loremaster: Support and (Elite) Single
Eagle: (Elite) Single

Ram Rider: Support and Single --> Elite Cavalry
Dragon Slayer: Single

Anybody feel free to copy and change this list to your opinion.

I agree that there still is a difference between many Single units and Monsters: it seems a very difficult category all the same. The point that complicates the division is that Single units do compare to each other the way Swordsmen do in terms of strengths and weaknesses: most have great efficiency (which might explain the missclassification as Elite units) whereas others have a proper niche to fill in supporting units. The question is where the limit is on assigning categories to units: should all fall under one or two categories max, or is a third indication more than helpful in many cases?

Trondheim9:
Garlodur, I agree with you that the categorization for these units can be tricky.  However, I would still defend a "Creature" category because we also categorize units by race: Gondor Soldiers are Men, Rivendell Lancers Elves, etc.  It's silly to make a category "Eagles" because only eagles and Gwaihir would be in it, so the solution would seem to be to make a generic "Creature" category.  A different discussion could be if we should even categorize them by race since that has to do more with LOTR lore than Edain Mod game mechanics (personally I like the race categories).

Concerning single units, I would support the idea of making an additional category for them since they are harder to classify, a "single unit" category or something like that. 

Personally, I like having many categories.  It allows for more specific exploration.  This is just my humble opinion, hope it all makes sense.

Julio229:

--- Zitat von: Trondheim9 am 13. Nov 2016, 23:27 ---Garlodur, I agree with you that the categorization for these units can be tricky.  However, I would still defend a "Creature" category because we also categorize units by race: Gondor Soldiers are Men, Rivendell Lancers Elves, etc.  It's silly to make a category "Eagles" because only eagles and Gwaihir would be in it, so the solution would seem to be to make a generic "Creature" category.  A different discussion could be if we should even categorize them by race since that has to do more with LOTR lore than Edain Mod game mechanics (personally I like the race categories).

Concerning single units, I would support the idea of making an additional category for them since they are harder to classify, a "single unit" category or something like that. 

Personally, I like having many categories.  It allows for more specific exploration.  This is just my humble opinion, hope it all makes sense.

--- Ende Zitat ---

I fully agree with this, the "Creature" category can be treated as the same as the Men, Elves or Dwarves category, and should remain, but a Single category could also be made.

That way, we could include Dire Wolves (for example) in the Creature category, and keep them being different categories.

OakenShield224:
Just bear in mind that we already have some categories of troll and ent. What would happen to these? I'm guessing that troll, ent or eagle heroes wouldn't go into the creature category then.

Trondheim9:

--- Zitat von: OakenShield224 am 14. Nov 2016, 17:23 ---Just bear in mind that we already have some categories of troll and ent. What would happen to these? I'm guessing that troll, ent or eagle heroes wouldn't go into the creature category then.

--- Ende Zitat ---

I would argue that the troll and ent categories are still valid as specifications of the type of creature.  I think of the "Ent" and "Troll" categories as being sub-categories of "Creatures".  Each of those two categories has more than just a few units and therefore the existence of their categories is justified for me. 

As for troll, ent, and eagle heroes, I still think they should go in the "Creature" category because that is their "race" so to say.  Boromir is labelled "Men", Legolas "Elves", so I don't see why not.

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