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Autor Thema: Several ideas for Gandalf  (Gelesen 1268 mal)

Offline Dain@

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Several ideas for Gandalf
« am: 8. Dez 2016, 11:27 »
Good afternoon Edayn community! I have a couple of ideas for danogo character and wanted to share with you about them! Sorry for my English !

Gandalf is a key figure of good. Gandalf is very balanced in fashion, but slightly boring in respect of a gameplay. Prerequisites for writing of this article about Gandalf serve the following reasons: Gandalf very powerful and interesting personality (only Gandalf and several heroes could resist Sauron and sustain his personal presence that characterizes it as the strongest hero of good in middle-earth). For me the most sad in fashion is that Gandalf the Grey differs in nothing from Gandalf White, at them abilities, for an exception of the fact that at Gandalf white quicker renewed abilities and the hung-up loss from magic are identical. However let's remember that according to books Gandalf the Grey he took part in destiny of middle-earth as the wise adviser and was famous for the diversions. (to remember though investigation in Dol Guldur and travel to the Lonely mountain). So Gandalf the Grey is powerful and the wisest the character which first of all uses the wisdom and resourcefulness, however when he has to struggle with the enemy face to face that he uses also the magic of light and fire. I suggest to change Gandalf the Grey's abilities in fashion as follows:
   At this stage development Gandalf without Glamdringa
1 level. To add ability of tactical withdrawal from fight, it works as follows: it blinds the closest enemies and for the period of them will paralyze, and Gandalf receives 20% of armor and 25% of speed.
   2 level. Horse
   4 level. Magic explosion
   6 level. Leadership (for it it is necessary to think up very specific and interesting leadership to show his wisdom and the importance)
   8 level. Ring of Narya. He suffers the raised loss fire to the closest enemies
   9 level. Small earthquake. Ability is similar as then when Gandalf to struggle with Balrog on Kazad Dumas Bridge.
At the tenth level Gandalf slightly changes the abilities and will melt more powerfully. He also receives Glamdring and suffers the raised loss in near fight.
   1 ability. A horse / Eagle (at Gandalf speed on a horse is higher than at ordinary riders - after all it went astride the king of horses) or it astride an eagle. (he  can think up couple of new abilities on an eagle)
   2 ability. Magic explosion (kills weak enemies, strong blinds and for couple of seconds will paralyze. He for a while receives + 20% of armor and + 25% of speed)
   3 ability. - Spirit major. He receives a certain immunity to enemy abilities of Heroes. + has ability of leadership.
   4 ability. Ring of Narya. He gives hope in the hearts of the closest allies and suffers a fiery loss to enemies in near fight. + from it sparks which burn enemies around it proceed.
   5. ability. Supreme attendant of good. He causes a small earthquake (kills near enemies causing a great loss) and receives a magic board which adds to it protection to 50% of armor.
 Gandalf white is more balanced however to him it is required to add ability of leadership, he was always a friend of all kind fractions and the good adviser.
The main thing that served such offers to conduct border between Gandalf gray and white, thus to the player will be heavy to choose between them as everyone will offer the unique way of extermination of enemies measured and the wise assistant or the powerful leader of good in heavy in an hour.
Also Gandalf should be made not only the hero of Gondor as on an extent of the life it helped all kind fractions.
Gandalf gray with a ring (ring hero). Very interesting idea with Gandalf gray when receiving a ring, he uses two rings and it has fiery abilities. However! I am very strongly grieved by his radiculitis  and why it so slowly moves??? as whether it be at a terminal state. It is also very sad that at it are completely identical on ability action as at Gandalf white! I think as the main hero of good he deserves slightly more attention, that is why it is necessary to make couple of changes.
Gandalf white with a ring (ring hero). To Gandalf white with a ring to add ability of leadership and will hang for a while the loss in near fight as at Gandalf gray with a ring it is higher. Also to add to it ability a magic board as at Tranduil, or to think up a board with other properties. And so in general everything is normal.

Thank you for your attention ! I hope these ideas (or at least used part) you like!



Offline Walküre

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Re: Several ideas for Gandalf
« Antwort #1 am: 8. Dez 2016, 12:18 »
Hi and welcome to Modding Union. Thank you for sharing your ideas here. I moved this thread to the right board: Gondor Suggestions. As suggestions are exactly supposed to be posted in the proper corresponding (related to the theme of the very thread) board, I sincerely invite you to do so.

Your insights deal with a lot of matters and are very wide-ranging. I will nonetheless try to give you brief answers concerning the major points of your proposal. A summary will do fine.

1. On top of all, Gandalf's conceptual design won't be changed in the foreseeable future. It means that it's quite imperative that his abilities (both in the grey and white form) be the same of how they have always been both in BFME1 and BFME2; each of them is extremely iconic and the exact symbol of his might and role in Middle-earth. Gandalf shall always remain recognisable either way: his power-set is one of the most effective of the game and a great legacy from the past of the BFME series.

2. Gandalf, as a hero of Gondor, is the Gandalf of the War of the Ring (aware of his bounden duty to guide the Fellowship in its perilous journey and to lead the Free People to victory against Sauron). Even if it may certainly be lore-accurate and characteristic to focus on his traits during the events of the Hobbit and the White Council, it would contrast with the faction's timeline (not to mention the complicated task of implementing additional mechanics to his concept).

3. As for all the other heroes of the Edain 4.0, Gandalf has a proper role. One thus ought not to use him as the all-powerful force he once was in the vanilla game, because he's simply not like that anymore. The mechanics of the game have radically changed.

4. A few days ago, there were people asking that Gandalf be made even much more effective in the game, to comply with his role and his devastating abilities. I perfectly understand the reasons. As I replied to them, I will give you the same answer. Gandalf is going to get a boost in the forthcoming 4.5 patch. I can't reveal anything about it, but may it suffice to say that he will kind of retrieve his past might.

Offline Dain@

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Re: Several ideas for Gandalf
« Antwort #2 am: 15. Dez 2016, 10:28 »
Gandalf, just never been an assistant to Gondor! but other factions! Yes, I perfectly understand that in times of war Ring Gandalf played a crucial role for Gondor, but it was not Gandalf the White Gandalf Grey. Also, when I offered to change / modify some abilities I did not say that we should move towards increasing its weight capacity., On the other hand it is not about to make it more efficient in terms of power struggle with the enemy and intellectual diversity! as the greatest hero is good in Middle-earth. As regards the proposal on the similarity of Gandalf the White and Grey I think Gandalf Grey deserves a little more attention! Yes, to a greater extent on the Gandalf the White, I agree with you very balanced character and meets its role in Middle-earth, but I think that the addition of his abilities such as leadership is demonstrated b b its spirit tutorial for friends and allies did not stop b. And you can just add a sixth ability ... although I do not know. But Gandalf the gray will allow the player to experience the game for the very good old man that we all love! And if you notice, I did not propose to increase or enhance its ability !!! I offer some ability to replace with new ones that are not stronger or weaker than the last, but they are changing the playing style of your character!
If now the entire written text briefly summarized as we get the following: What player will truly wonder whether to change Gandalf the Grey to Gandalf's white! now the question itself is obvious, but a new concept of the same character will produce different styles of play for him! but does not interfere with the balance and credibility of the book.

Thank you for your attention ! We sincerely look forward to your opinion!

Offline Walküre

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Re: Several ideas for Gandalf
« Antwort #3 am: 15. Dez 2016, 13:51 »
It's true that Gandalf, in line with his wandering and pilgrim-like nature, dealt with many people/races/realms in Middle-earth, but his presence in Gondor is the most logical solution in the game's perspective. That's why it has been like this since the first chapter of the BFME series. Gondor represents the main pillar of the Free People's defence and will to fight for liberty. Add to this the role of Gandalf in the siege of Minas Tirith and overall as an Istar: the equation follows. Implementing him in other factions (as a stable hero) would be really complex and highly problematical.

And if you notice, I did not propose to increase or enhance its ability !!! I offer some ability to replace with new ones that are not stronger or weaker than the last, but they are changing the playing style of your character!

I did notice that you were referring to conceptual changes (and not balance-related statistics). I got your point very clearly. As I already answered in my previous reply, that type of changes is out of question; the developers made it very clear that they won't replace or add other abilities in the foreseeable future. Gandalf's concept has always been extremely iconic since BFME1, and it shall remain so.

Furthermore, I believe that the reasoning at the root of your proposal is not correct. The Gandalf the White spell is not supposed to give the player an opportunity to have a completely different hero, endowed with different abilities or even with another role. The spell's purpose is the considerable enhancement of the hero himself (not an equal choice between two different concepts). I thus don't understand the need to have Gandalf the Grey receive new abilities or some kind of differentiation of any sort. People exactly used to complain about the character's own strength, rather than his conceptual uniqueness. Like I announced, the issue will be solved with the next patch: the spell will permit him to retrieve his past renowned potential.

Offline dkbluewizard

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Re: Several ideas for Gandalf
« Antwort #4 am: 18. Dez 2016, 19:12 »
Diewalkure I disagree with you in this instance if you are going by the books. I mean there is plenty of evidence that Gandalf the White and Grey are distinctively different. The chapter the White Rider explains how Gandalf the White could not be hurt by any weapon that Legolas, Gimli, or Aragorn bear (keep in mind Aragorn has the blade that hurt Sauron), Gandalf the White was much more agile (skipping on rocks like an elf), and Gandalf hands also glowed white.

So going from a lore/book standpoint I agree with Dain, however, if we are going with a game standpoint then I agree with you, Diewalkure.

Interestingly, this topic has made me think about Narya and Glamdring being incorporated, I mean with the Arnor faction, Gandalf didn't have Glamdring or any sword for that matter. So must think, if we allow Glamdring the +50% passive damage, should we allow it for Arnor? I don't think so as it should only be added to Gondor Gandalf. Gandalf in Arnor shouldn't have a sword at all.

I agree a lot with what Dain says, he is right. Gandalf deserves just as much application as the chief opponent to Sauron as Galadriel, Sauron, or Saruman. I don't know about all the powers being changed however, but I do feel Gandalf needs Narya and Glamdring, as I have innumerably stated. They are critical to his character and show why he was considered special in leading the forces of man and slaying the balrog.
Outside of Lord of the Rings, I am pretty sure Vengeance of Valdorian & Leoj's Wrath are the best novels I have read.

Offline Walküre

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Re: Several ideas for Gandalf
« Antwort #5 am: 18. Dez 2016, 20:09 »
So going from a lore/book standpoint I agree with Dain, however, if we are going with a game standpoint then I agree with you, Diewalkure.

Yes, I was referring to the very game. I know very well that Gandalf the White is greater than his grey counterpart and more akin to how a Maia in full powers would be in the Third Age, but, within the boundaries of the game, the Gandalf the White spell is meant to be a considerable boost for him (instead of a possibility to turn Gandalf into something completely different). The argument behind is similar to what we addressed in your thread: our proposal (Narya) in fact doesn't alter anything regarding the problematics dealt with here.

Offline Lord Aytugar

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Re: Several ideas for Gandalf
« Antwort #6 am: 29. Dez 2016, 17:07 »
I think Gandalf should have more various forms. We see Gandalf the Grey and Gandalf the White in Gondor and his ring hero forms. Also Arnor has Gandalf and Dwarves can summon him too. Five Gandalf has almost same abilities and the other one is just temporary. Of course Edain looks after the balance but the abilities can change similarly like Dwarven Gandalf. For example while Gandalf the White has Wop,  Gandalf the Grey can have small earthqueke like dain said. Besides Istari Light don't fit for Gandalf the Grey. Generally i agree with dkbluewizard and dain but some points are different like if Arnor Gandalf has the Narya, Cirdan's ability will be confusing. However Glamdring should not be in Arnor. I think if there will be decision to change Gandalf, every body can give proposal.

Offline dkbluewizard

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Re: Several ideas for Gandalf
« Antwort #7 am: 30. Dez 2016, 04:31 »
Hey Lord Aytugar,

I agree that Gandalf should have varying forms as which pertains to the canon. Arnor Gandalf should be different than Gandalf the Grey for Gondor. Gandalf the White should be better than either Gandalf forms.

Whatever the decision, we all must see Gandalf with Narya and later, Glamdring (with a bonus). Thorin Oakenshield should have a bonus too, I mean Glamdring and Orcist are arguably better than Narsil (I actually would say they are better given that they were forged by High Elves and Narsil was forged by Dwarfs. Noldor were better smiths.

So I feel +50% damage for both Orcrist and Glamdring is not too much to ask as both exceed Anduriel in being better blades. The +50% could be passive to Gandalf the Grey's Lightning Sword and Thorin Oakenshield's Exiled King ability.

Whatever occurs and whatever Ealendril decides, Gandalf must have the bonuses from both Narya and Glamdring, it is just canonical, balanced, and outright fair.
Outside of Lord of the Rings, I am pretty sure Vengeance of Valdorian & Leoj's Wrath are the best novels I have read.

Offline Slawek56703

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Re: Several ideas for Gandalf
« Antwort #8 am: 9. Jan 2017, 16:52 »
As much as l like Gandalf i think he shouldn't be avivable to use he's powers on horse while being still Grey . For me it's just doesn't fit that FOTR horse he used wouldn't be scared  of such powers Gandalf use . It should give him speed boost and be used in danger and fast crossing map but shouldn't imo allow him to use his powers. Only when he is White animals better understand him and especially Shadofax.I hope others share this some opinion on that .Also this make another small diffrence beetwen White and Grey forms.

Offline Walküre

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Re: Several ideas for Gandalf
« Antwort #9 am: 9. Jan 2017, 18:21 »
I personally find the horse issue a too minimal of an issue to be dealt with, alongside binding Gandalf the Grey too strictly. I can't see the reason for that differentiation (which is very much binding).

Offline Slawek56703

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Re: Several ideas for Gandalf
« Antwort #10 am: 9. Jan 2017, 18:55 »
I personally find the horse issue a too minimal of an issue to be dealt with, alongside binding Gandalf the Grey too strictly. I can't see the reason for that differentiation (which is very much binding).

Hmm in that case maybe Gandalf the White wouldn't be able to use powers as well on horse except Istari Light like he did in movie . What do u think can such change to my idea above made this more fair ?
« Letzte Änderung: 9. Jan 2017, 19:33 von Slawek56703 »

Offline Fredius

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Re: Several ideas for Gandalf
« Antwort #11 am: 9. Jan 2017, 21:14 »
It's an unnecessary change. Why fix something that is not broken?

Offline Slawek56703

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Re: Several ideas for Gandalf
« Antwort #12 am: 9. Jan 2017, 21:58 »
It's an unnecessary change. Why fix something that is not broken?

It is true that it's not broken but that doesn't mean it can't be tweaked. Hmm i give example like when Gandalf use Word of Power this ability just look baddass on foot (Gandalf use two hands on his staff and this just look better and to be honest another think is come to enemy base on horse Use mentioned earlier power and kill evrything with it (especially when Gandalf gets buff to his powers with next update) and just run away . I don't mention how hard it is for Gandalf get to lvl 10 but becouse only of his Mass Slayer abilities that most of them have aoe attack and can level up him very quick if they are used wisely .
If Saruman had mount i doupt anybody would see him Fireball from his horse or just Wizard Blast or convert enemies via Wormtongue ability.
Beside those two heores have Ring hero forms and could be allowed to do most of this kind of thinks since then read as Gandalf Challenge Master would be allowed to use his abilities on horse.


Speaking about broken I understand now why Gandalf in bfme 1 can't be knock over this animation of him being knock over is awful to be honest this is the only from broken thinks i can think of.I think most people would like this too if Gandalf couldn't be knocked back.


Offline Walküre

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Re: Several ideas for Gandalf
« Antwort #13 am: 9. Jan 2017, 22:43 »
Saruman and Gandalf are two very different heroes. A horse fits absolutely well for Gandalf, given his renowned pilgrim-like characterisation. The same thing couldn't be said for stable heroes as Saruman or Galadriel, who are also the true authoritative leaders of their respective factions. I can't see any defect in the capability of Gandalf of riding a horse and casting spells at the same time. On the side of the gameplay, such change sounds even more disruptive.

Offline Slawek56703

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Re: Several ideas for Gandalf
« Antwort #14 am: 9. Jan 2017, 23:16 »
Saruman and Gandalf are two very different heroes. A horse fits absolutely well for Gandalf, given his renowned pilgrim-like characterisation. The same thing couldn't be said for stable heroes as Saruman or Galadriel, who are also the true authoritative leaders of their respective factions. I can't see any defect in the capability of Gandalf of riding a horse and casting spells at the same time. On the side of the gameplay, such change sounds even more disruptive.

Well this one convinced me thank you DieWalküre and Fredius .

Offline Walküre

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Re: Several ideas for Gandalf
« Antwort #15 am: 10. Jan 2017, 19:14 »
By the way, if we were to add another argument, by the time of LOTR Gandalf had been journeying throughout Middle-earth for almost two millennia, visiting many places and befriending a wide range of creatures (the sentient Eagles included). I thus think he has had enough time to 'get acquainted' with animals, hasn't he?  ;)