[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Gondor Suggestions

A canonical Gandalf

(1/11) > >>

dkbluewizard:
If I was to implement a system for Gandalf, I would do the same as Alatar. I would have his three stances, (Defense = Magic Bubble, Standard = Staff, and Aggressive = Glamdring).

Magic Bubble Gandalf has his magic bubble on and functions like BFME1 Gandalf (he can't be knocked back in this stance). The rest of his powers would be filled with the Dwarf summon powers, Narya, and a Heal like he did for Thorin/Pippin in the movies.

The aggressive stance would have a passive picture of Glamdring, and function like Anduriel or Orcrist for Thorin/Aragorn in one of the powers. Gandalf's powers would be more aggressive and faster in this stance. Such as sending a boulder rolling at enemies, summoning an eagle strike like radagast, and a power reset like WK (Your staff is broken).

The standard can be just regular Gandalf.

Hey, they're changing Galadriel to be more canonical, why not the G-man?

Also, I have heard that "OMG, balance, complex, not needed, etc." Look, ET is in the process of changing Galadriel and Cirdan to be more canonical and it is only fair that Gandalf be more canonical as well. People saying it is too complex are wrong given that micromanagment has always been a crucial part of gameplay, and balance, the wizards powers are weaker anyways, so a little extra abilities wouldn't make that much of a difference to Gandalf's role/function anyways.

Anyhow, tell me what you think and I'll do a Sauron 3rd stance topic later on. Thank you.

Julio229:
I can only agree with this suggestion! It helps making Gandalf more interesting to use, while keeping his powers from the original games, and giving him new ones!

Walküre:
Hi Blue! Thank you for having brought your suggestions here, in the official forum. Even though our opinions may differ, this topic could be an interesting occasion to discuss and maybe even to come up with a final compromise/concept. Let's see how the thread is developed.

As I anticipated at the beginning, my personal opinions differ consistently from yours here, speaking about Gandalf. Without embarking on long disquisitions, I will address the major problematics and relevant aspects. Given the own particularities of the hero involved, I'm not in favour of any significant change regarding Gandalf; that is, very little is to be overhauled when we deal with conceptual abilities or his very role. Whenever similar proposals were presented, I and the other Moderators always followed a precise line, with which I obviously and thoroughly agree.

Gandalf's concept has been extremely iconic since the very first chapter of the BFME series. The embodiment of the hegemonic hero by definition: sensational abilities combined with a very effective role in the faction. Powers that perfectly match with his mass-slayer nature. Thus it follows that there is not much left to add to his phenomenal concept, even in the multicoloured universe of the Edain Mod. I would say it's quite imperative that his current concept (and characterisation) be maintained as it is now (simple yet enough unique and effective), lest superfluous things be implemented without taking into consideration the ever-present boundaries of the game. Not because it's absolutely forbidden to propose new ideas, but rather for the fact that all the previously-mentioned premises suggest not to proceed that way.

Furthermore, I will also tell you why I think a stance system would be logical for heroes as Sauron and Galadriel, but not when it comes to Gandalf. Contrary to the Dark Lord and the Lady of Light, the Grey Wizard is one of the most active heroes in the game; he's therefore meant to battle with enemies directly in the frontline, and so his dynamic role well justifies the presence of such mighty abilities (just think about Word of Power). On the other hand, Sauron and Galadriel rely (as leaders) on supportive properties, with the purpose of supporting their troops and structures (their respective realms) from afar; it's then in this particular context that I agree that they could have the possibility to shift momentarily to a more aggressive characterisation (a stance that enables multiple new abilities). But on Gandalf's side, I don't personally see any viable scope for creating a digression from his paramount dynamic nature, as all his abilities already suffice to make him unique and conceptually complete.

But I can't deny that the Narya issue is something that has been puzzling me for quite some time; your proposal is thus quite tempting under that aspect. One side of me respects the customary proposition that wants Círdan to wield the Ring of Fire in the game (so that all the Three are available only to the two Elven factions), while the other just kicks against the idea of taking Narya away from his true owner during the War of the Ring: Mithrandir. Also, I always expressed myself in favour of particular stance systems for the greatest heroes of each faction; if not a structured system, at least a smart feature. Said that, I think we could try to come up with possible alternatives that imply the return of Narya to Gandalf (as the lore would demand) or other clever mechanics, provided that they strictly occupy a secondary position in the hero's concept.

Concerning Gandalf's current performance in the game, it's fair to say that most of the complaints I read are mainly focused on his abilities' effectiveness, instead of his conceptual properties. The fixing of the bug that affected the scaling of Magic improved things a bit, but I too admit it's still not enough. Henceforth, as I already replied to akin questions, there is something you ought to know: in the forthcoming 4.5 patch, Gandalf will be given a boost and so he will kind of retrieve his past formidable potential we are all fond of. I can't reveal much more, but may you be sure that a lot will change in this perspective as well (I tested it myself).


--- Zitat von: dkbluewizard am 16. Dez 2016, 14:51 ---Hey, they're changing Galadriel to be more canonical, why not the G-man?

Also, I have heard that "OMG, balance, complex, not needed, etc." Look, ET is in the process of changing Galadriel and Cirdan to be more canonical and it is only fair that Gandalf be more canonical as well.

--- Ende Zitat ---

A just clarification: that concept of Galadriel is a proper concept/proposal of mine. The Edain Team has never stated anything official about it, nor do I know whether the proposal has been accepted or rejected (or if they are still pondering what to do). It's thus incorrect to state that they are going to implement those suggestions, even if you don't imagine how I wish they did. The only thing we can do for now is continuing to support it in every way possible. Nevertheless, I'm grateful that you deem it worthy of being compared to Sauron (I exactly thought about him in the conceiving of the ideas) or to Gandalf  ;)

dkbluewizard:
To Diewalkure,

Thank you for your kind post. I am glad we always seem to meet and have educated and classy discussions.

With that stated, I don't argue against the charge of Gandalf being a mass slayer, yes he is very good at this and has already fulfilled that role. However, as you stated, my stance system does fix the problem of Narya being implemented to his character. Gandalf per the lore is not just a mass slayer, but he is also a building destroyer, and hero killer. Examples of this are shown with him using fireworks on enemies, destroying bridges, and slaying Balrog of Moria and Great Goblin.

I am not asking for Gandalf to be all powerful. I could have said "Make him more lore worthy when he is the White, make it so that no physical weapon can harm him." I am not saying you're accusing me of such words, but I am wanting to see more lore bases--and really, something new for Gandalf that is complimentary to his Maiar abilities. As it stands, I feel he is just an old wizard from the Hobbit and not the Maia canonical being that we all know and love.

I mean, I guess we could have Cirdan give the ring to Gandalf, but then how does that work for the Gondor faction? Also, giving Narya to Gandalf would have to reset his powers to something different anyways.

So to incorporate the lore, movie, and game--I feel the stance system compliments the essence of Gandalf's character in its entirety without taking away his mass slayer role.

Like you said, I loved your Galadriel proposal and I will do the same for Sauron. I mean lets be honest, Galadriel, Saruman, Gandalf, and Sauron are the most powerful beings of the Third Age, I think a little versatility in powers isn't that much of a big deal for coders.

If this system is too complex, then why not allow him to switch powers by mounting his  firework cart, then maybe some of the powers and Narya could be implemented into that. Only thing though, I feel the firework cart would look kind of dorky in Edain mod.

lordoflinks:
At the moment Gandalf seems to be lacking 2 facets in my view, the 'bubble' he deploys in Fellowship of the Ring, and Narya. Firstly I would not want Cirdan to lose the ring, as he did have it.
Secondly I oppose a three stance system, as I feel that would lead to abilities for the sake of taking up a slot; and overlap. The problem with your 3 stance proposal is to me it causes massive overlap with the spellbook (Such as the Eagles) and it makes Gandalf into someone who can do anything; and takes away from the fact heroes are intended to have roles, and this is a concession that must be made for gameplay in the base mod; submods can afford to offer more complexity as new users won't see them, and they do not affect the balance of the main mod. In addition it then seems unfair that if Gandalf gets more than one stance, why doesn't Sauroman, why not Elrond, why not the Angmar Witch-King and hence the line has to be drawn somewhere.
 I think at best, rather than changing the stance give him an expanded ability set, by that I mean one of the slots is an arrow. Have him unlock Narya at level 2, move lighting sword to level 3, and grant him the bubble at level 5 as a toggle ability (He could always have it on), he can always have the bubble on but the toggle has a cooldown. He moves slower but has higher defence.

Navigation

[0] Themen-Index

[#] Nächste Seite