[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Gondor Suggestions

A canonical Gandalf

<< < (2/11) > >>

Gandalf7000:

--- Zitat von: lordoflinks am 17. Dez 2016, 11:16 ---At the moment Gandalf seems to be lacking 2 facets in my view, the 'bubble' he deploys in Fellowship of the Ring, and Narya. Firstly I would not want Cirdan to lose the ring, as he did have it.
Secondly I oppose a three stance system, as I feel that would lead to abilities for the sake of taking up a slot; and overlap. The problem with your 3 stance proposal is to me it causes massive overlap with the spellbook (Such as the Eagles) and it makes Gandalf into someone who can do anything; and takes away from the fact heroes are intended to have roles, and this is a concession that must be made for gameplay in the base mod; submods can afford to offer more complexity as new users won't see them, and they do not affect the balance of the main mod. In addition it then seems unfair that if Gandalf gets more than one stance, why doesn't Sauroman, why not Elrond, why not the Angmar Witch-King and hence the line has to be drawn somewhere.
 I think at best, rather than changing the stance give him an expanded ability set, by that I mean one of the slots is an arrow. Have him unlock Narya at level 2, move lighting sword to level 3, and grant him the bubble at level 5 as a toggle ability (He could always have it on), he can always have the bubble on but the toggle has a cooldown. He moves slower but has higher defence.

--- Ende Zitat ---
This is a good suggestion. I also think that all faction leaders should have additional troop/building supportive ability.

dkbluewizard:
To Lordoflinks and Gandalf7000,

I understand that you guys feel that this is unfair to other heroes, but let us not forget the Mouth of Sauron, Mordor Witch King, and Sauron himself with Power of Ages past all have differing stances/abilities that don't overpower them or change their role in Edain mod. This has to be done for Gandalf as he is the most important good character in the fight against Sauron.

I don't necessarily disagree with the fact that all Ringheroes should have more than one slot ability. I actually would be open to Gandalf having one ability that is an arrow to another set of abilities. If the stances themselves are bugging you, then I would go with your suggestion of the arrow.

We are all in agreement here, Gandalf needs Narya as that is canonical, and he needs something more since he is the greatest good in middle earth during the Third Age, heck, he did wrestle with the Dark Lord (Sauron) at Amon Hen and succeeded in protecting Frodo.

So we need something new, be it the stance system, an arrow with another set of powers like MOS, WK, or Sauron Ancient Powered--it is needed and the Edain Team should take this into consideration.

Now how do we get this suggestion some notoriety?

Walküre:

--- Zitat von: dkbluewizard am 17. Dez 2016, 02:40 ---Thank you for your kind post. I am glad we always seem to meet and have educated and classy discussions.

--- Ende Zitat ---

I'm very glad to discuss with you equally. This is what Modding Union is all about.

Ok, I read all the contributions presented so far and may I also thank you again for expressing your personal opinions on the matter. Gandalf seems to be a quite complete character in itself, but it's always great to know that he often manages to attract a lot of attention from the Community; he's one of the most iconic characters of LOTR, and so I perfectly understand why many people are concerned about his overall performance.

Let's start with saying that I can see the purposes and the intent of having him be more unique than he currently is, but we have to get to grips with the actual state of things: Gandalf is a tough topic to deal with in the first place. Just to follow in the footsteps of the comparison we made between him and heroes like Sauron and Galadriel, I would like to explain myself more properly. The point is that Sauron and Galadriel are the true leaders of their respective factions: they are at the centre of all (Sauron, in particular) and have the absolute duty to support their whole realm; thus, here it is the right ground around which I find it legitimate to ask for more versatility and uniqueness, considering also that they are mainly endowed with supportive properties.

On the other hand, Gandalf is a kind of exception. He does stand in Gondor as the mightiest hero of all, but the interesting aspect is that he's not the leader (military and authoritative leadership) of his faction and he can't consequently dispose of supportive abilities (his role is fixed). I'm not at all questioning this type of characterisation, as it shows well his lore-accurate pilgrim-like connotation; a powerful wizard that wanders throughout Middle-earth and offers his help to whom he visits. What I want to point out is that these exact elements inevitably force us to operate within clear boundaries. I will also try to summarise other significant arguments we should have in mind very carefully.

1. Gandalf's role is fixed and it is the one of a mass-slayer. His formidable abilities already serve well for that goal and are already very much unique.
2. Adding to the previous point, his concept has been kept the same since BFME1. It remained unaltered because it's extremely iconic.
3. Gondor's Gandalf is the Gandalf of the War of the Ring, thus leaving aside concepts or other aspects from the Hobbit trilogy (his Hobbit-like connotation is present via the Dwarven spellbook).
4. Given his greatly dynamic power, I think we could do without the idea of an aggressive stance or of a regular one. This would lead us directly and solely towards defence.

Said that, I eventually believe that the only possibility to add something new is centred around Narya only. Gandalf will gain back the Ring of Fire (thus making each of the Three available in three different factions). Beside the adherence to the lore (which I obviously cherish very much), Narya would help us a lot in regards of the fourth argument I listed above: since Narya is the Ring of endurance and resilience, it can be easily linked to defence. Contrary to Vilya and Nenya, which grant extraordinary powers over vast lands, Narya is more bound to a personal scale (the personal strength of its bearer). I view this as a solid ground to start from. Then, speaking about the very implementation of such feature, I would suggest the current sixth slot of Gandalf's Palantír of powers (now used for the normal stances) be replaced with Narya. I thought about two different options so far.


* Passive: Narya is implemented as a passive ability, allowing Gandalf to activate his magical barrier in times of needs, alongside enhancing his armour and resistance against Magic and monsters (and heroes too?).
* Active: Gandalf activates his magical shield for a given amount of time and infuses surrounding troops with hope and resistance.


This is really a first draft of mine. I still need to know how his magical shield functions exactly (in the current version of the game) and we will surely have to go a bit more into details, but I like how the debate has progressed. I know that some of you might expect more, but I sincerely find this a very just compromise that complies with the premises stated in the previous passages of this post. Moreover, I guess we should also come up with a different proposal that envisages Gandalf's turning into Gandalf the White: how should Narya change in that perspective? Feel free to forward your own opinions.

lordoflinks:
I agree a thousand times with DieWalküre's proposal of linking Narya to the bubble shield. Could Wizard Blast be made into a ranged attack, while still keeping the sword as a melee attack, to free the level one slot for this ability? 

dkbluewizard:
To Diewalkure and LordofLinks

I like the proposal so far, we needed something new, I don't see an error though coming up with Gandalf the White power. Narya can remain with his upgraded form. I can get behind this without asking for fireworks on one condition, Glamdring be a passive power as well +50% Passive damage (Like Orcrist or Anduriel) but can be clicked on to do the lightning sword.

I think the Narya bubble, and the passive Glamdring ability enhance Gandalf enough to warrant the purchasing of him and that would allow us to keep all the powers as is, it would give us something new, and Gandalf would feel like his BFME 1 persona.

I see this as becoming a really good discussion and I think we have all come a long way. Is anyone still interested in his firework cart being an additional mount choice?

Navigation

[0] Themen-Index

[#] Nächste Seite

[*] Vorherige Sete