[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] General Suggestions

A New way to discuss balance: Episode 1 Imladris Vs Isengard

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Goodfella:
Hello everybody!

I've have decided to start a new mini-series on my channel focusing on balance issues. It is a discussion (and argument) - not just a statement of my opinion. So feel free to disagree and prove me wrong!

The mini-series is designed to be a secondary area for balance discussion and hopefully will start some new conversations on particular balance issues

In the first episode i'll be covering Imladris Vs Isengard:

Here is a link to the video, in which i discuss all the main points:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVfZHubikFw

In Summary i (and other players) believe that Isengard's early game is too much for imla to deal with bcs of a combination of wargs, scouts and wildmen

Some ways to balance:
1. Gildor cost reduction
2. Warg pit price increase (by about 100)
3. Delay the timing of scout's obtaining weapon switch
4. Increase the strength of the counter system (Will help in more than just this match-up imo)

Let the debate commence (I Hope)

Odysseus:
There are a couple of things I would add to the table.

1. I agree with the Gildor cost reduction. Gildor has useful abilities, but I don't understand why he costs 250. He's pretty poor in combat.

2. I never liked the fact that Wildmen could get their torches without any requirements. As long as you have the cash for them, you can purchase them. I don't know if it is related to the video as I haven't watched it yet as I write. Imagine being able to purchase forged blades on a squad without having to research the upgrade first. The unique perk of the Wildmen is that they already steal resources, so I don't know why they have access to torches without any requirements besides cash. 

3. What do you mean with ''the strength of the balance system''? The counter-system?

Goodfella:
'Balance system' Thanks, that was a brain-fart ! derp :p i meant 'counter system'

I personally don't see torches as too much of a problem. It gives the wildmen a good boost yes, but is also a risk. you are investing more money in a weak unit that can be easily killed by cav/ archers. The 200 resources you invest is more than the cost of the unit itself!

That being said, just bcs i have never experienced it being too strong doesn't mean it can't be too strong in certain situations.

I guess it could be too strong if you use them to rush a base like mordor or isen where they have no walls and the torch becomes really useful. You can buff a few of your early troops to do more dmg to buildings, before either player has many command points. Unlike building another bat (which costs less resources) upgrades cost no command points, so maybe there could be a problem there.

Atm i see the torches making wildmen a bit better at their jobs, which is counterbalanced with a risk of losing a bigger investment.

In this match-up i think the bigger problem is early scouts and wargs vs an early imla army, in which pikes don't do enough dmg to warg attacks.

Odysseus:
Hmm yes Imladris pikes should not lose those encounters so easily. As for the Isengard Scouts, yes they do a lot of damage, but generally I think Imladris' units (besides cavalry ofc) suffer a lot of damage from archers. Archers can focus fire their arrows on the few targets that Imladris battalions have, and do significant damage in the process. I suppose Isengard scouts could be nerfed a little, or the hunting arrow volley could be made to be usable on cav/monsters/heroes only, and not on troops. Isengard is supposed to have a weak early game, but it's deceptively strong if used correctly.

Mogat:
Very good analytic Video, I think we can all agree that this matchup needs some improovement.
Concerning the wildmen I agree with Fella: yes, you can quickly double their damage with the torches, however they are such a vulnerable unit, that this can fire back pretty quickly. At least in this matchup the scouts and their great synergy with the wargs is more troubeling.

Increasing the general damage of Pikes vs. Cavalry would already be a huge deal, not only in this matchup, but in countless other cases.
Cavalry is extremely strong in this patch, which leads to straightup cavalry battles in almost every game, because you cannot counter it with adequately with pikes. The player with the cavalry advantage has already won the game in 90% of the matches.
(it is almost impossible to counter a fast, harassing force, which can fight even pikes headon, while also having to deal with an infantry army, without cavalry). But that is maybe a point for another balance video.

The other suggestions are also very reasonable, lets see if something can be improoved in this direction.

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