[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] General Suggestions

The Goblins faction

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dkbluewizard:
This is all I will say about it. The War of Dwarves and Dragons as well as other Goblins fighting in the Grey Mountains with the remnants of Durin's Folk is canonical. Moria ruins and Grey Mountain's ruins would be similar given that they are both of Durin's Folk thus have a significant building structure.

As far as Lossoth is concerned they are not just in the Cape of Forochel they are also in Forodwaith or the Northern Waste (right next to the Grey Mountains). Thus is why I selected them and it represented the north quite well. And yes they were not evil, but that is why they are included as slaves, how else would we be able to give them representation or get them into the mod?

In regards to the Balrog, I didn't want him with the dragons for canonical and balance reasons which all of you pointed out initially. Why not just say Misty Mountains win? When you can drop dragons, balrogs, trolls, and giants--I am sorry but that is really hard to counter with any faction. Unless you are all telling me that the Balrog will be so nerfed for the faction that his summon doesn't matter at all, which in essence doesn't do him justice either, in which case having him as a permanent hero without dragons or mountain giants would be better.

The three trolls as Ring heroes was just a suggestion for the time being. Nothing set in stone.

Diewalkure, you have stated innumerably that the Misty Mountains albeit the Goblin faction is a wild faction. So having the Nameless is not uncanonical as they existed underground and gnawed at the world, Grey and Misty Mountains faction represent the underground and ruins of the world. If going by what you said about them "never serving anyone but themselves." Then why would we have Smaug, the Balrog, Bill, Bert, Tom, etc. be in this faction? LOL.

All in all I just wanted to see what other people thought, and nothing really surprised me here, so I got what I wanted and needed now. Have fun with Edain Mod.

AulëTheSmith:

--- Zitat von: dkbluewizard am 10. Sep 2017, 17:23 ---All in all I just wanted to see what other people thought, and nothing really surprised me here, so I got what I wanted and needed now. Have fun with Edain Mod.

--- Ende Zitat ---

Chill out my Blue friend ;) I think we all appreciate your work. I agree with the fact that there's no need of a new faction, but i like some of your ideas. Why not try to implement it in a good way with the current (despite 4 years old) MM concept? For example a camp named "Ruins of the Grey mountains"  ;).
I cannot say anything about Lossoth because i have not lore knowledge on this matter.

As for having a lot of monsters at the same time: it is supposed to be the only faction with so many powerful creatures. And also (a part of the mighty Balrog) more or less any faction has some tool to counteract monsters.

Fredius:

--- Zitat von: dkbluewizard am 10. Sep 2017, 17:23 ---As far as Lossoth is concerned they are not just in the Cape of Forochel they are also in Forodwaith or the Northern Waste (right next to the Grey Mountains). Thus is why I selected them and it represented the north quite well. And yes they were not evil, but that is why they are included as slaves, how else would we be able to give them representation or get them into the mod?

--- Ende Zitat ---

According to the article of Tolkien Gateway about the Northern Wastes, the remnants of the Forodwaith, who lived in the Northern Wastes, moved to the Cape of Forochel as a result of the rise of Angmar. These remnants are, according to the same source, the Lossoth. Both articles explain that the Lossoth now live in the Cape of Forochel, and not in the Northern Wastes anylonger, so the Lossoth functioning as slaves or as scavengers for the Grey Mountains is highly unlikely. If the Lossoth are to be represented in the mod, then the best way, imo, is to have them as a summon for Arvedui, or something different in the Arnor faction, because they actually helped the king of Arnor in the lore. They are a good folk, not a bad one.


--- Zitat von: dkbluewizard am 10. Sep 2017, 17:23 ---In regards to the Balrog, I didn't want him with the dragons for canonical and balance reasons which all of you pointed out initially. Why not just say Misty Mountains win? When you can drop dragons, balrogs, trolls, and giants--I am sorry but that is really hard to counter with any faction. Unless you are all telling me that the Balrog will be so nerfed for the faction that his summon doesn't matter at all, which in essence doesn't do him justice either, in which case having him as a permanent hero without dragons or mountain giants would be better.

--- Ende Zitat ---

We can't discuss balance problems unless we have played the faction in its current state. I'm pretty sure the Edain team can balance the faction just fine.


--- Zitat von: AulëTheSmith am 10. Sep 2017, 18:12 ---Why not try to implement it in a good way with the current (despite 4 years old) MM concept? For example a camp named "Ruins of the Grey mountains"  ;).

--- Ende Zitat ---

A Grey Mountains camp for the Misty Mountains is actually already present in the faction through the Dragon Lair outpost :). I thus believe there is nothing else that can present the Grey Mountains in a better way than them, unless the team decides to give the Grey Mountains their own unique Orcs and Monsters.

Walküre:

--- Zitat von: dkbluewizard am 10. Sep 2017, 17:23 ---Diewalkure, you have stated innumerably that the Misty Mountains albeit the Goblin faction is a wild faction. So having the Nameless is not uncanonical as they existed underground and gnawed at the world, Grey and Misty Mountains faction represent the underground and ruins of the world. If going by what you said about them "never serving anyone but themselves." Then why would we have Smaug, the Balrog, Bill, Bert, Tom, etc. be in this faction? LOL.

--- Ende Zitat ---

Being endowed with a wild characterisation doesn't automatically imply that something has no logic in its own design. The random addition of monsters and elements divergent from each other was the exact legacy of the vanilla that the Edain Team was trying to rectify. Not to mention the eventuality of having unnecessary replicas in a same faction. Sometimes, less is better, if there is very little of unique character that might be implemented. And this comes from a person who is very fond of details and complex dynamics, as the ones which the Edain Mod is renowned for. Furthermore, the list of characters you mentioned are not Nameless Things, being the latter an exceptional case in the lore, as I was trying to demonstrate in my reasoning.


--- Zitat von: dkbluewizard am 10. Sep 2017, 17:23 ---All in all I just wanted to see what other people thought, and nothing really surprised me here, so I got what I wanted and needed now. Have fun with Edain Mod.

--- Ende Zitat ---

In the words of previous comments of mine in other threads, I shall repeat this: if there is something, even the apparently least meaningful thing, that bothers you a good deal, you ought to make us aware of what you deem annoying or simply wrong. Continuing the series of passive-aggressive or disappointed remarks won't help us all make it through issues. It is to worsen them, on the contrary.

I'm sure that you know well, and you have seen that with your very eyes, that we are capable of very grand propositions for this forum, when the way is open and anyone participating is willing to contribute; this means that one should be ready to concede some things and subject one's thoughts to the judgement of other people. Namely, what we have gone through during the thorough debates of concepts like the new factions or Narya. Otherwise, when the way is shut, one could never hope to make something useful out of an intransigent attitude, to which claiming to divide people between Tolkienists and Non-Tolkienists belongs equally. And I can assure you that I'm not the sole who had similar impressions. I'm honestly quite tired of seeking to appease people, lest someone feel offended for the fact of negative feedback or even personally attacked. There have been far worse and more heated debates on this forum, and we always succeeded in going through them with the just spirit; a constructive spirit. It all depends on you, though.

dkbluewizard:
Walkure, as stated I have all that I could need now, thank you for participating, but I really don't see the need to waste my time with this mod. I have bigger, and frankly better things to do than wait on a mod that updates very slowly. This was just an idea and nothing more, take it for what you will.

When it comes down to it, each have their own justifications whether it be lore worthy or not and continue down circular reasoning over and over again. I don't feel personally attacked, I feel like many others who have jumped ship, that this is just a mod--why get worked up about it? In the end does it do anything earth shattering or cool? No, it is just an old game that the majority of people in the world don't care to know about. That said, I think I will start focusing my time on more important things in life like the edain team does with their own endeavors. Hence the lack of updates. If you guys want to continue to come on here and debate it out, great. But as for me, I no longer see the need for something so mundane and whimsical.

Thanks for the info and all of you make it what you will. Peace out.

--dkbluewizard

Aule, if I was any more chill I would be in the Helcaraxë

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