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Autor Thema: Legolas and Tauriel  (Gelesen 3461 mal)

Tiberius Ogden

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Legolas and Tauriel
« am: 21. Jan 2019, 00:28 »
New place for Legolas and Tauriel - border patrol




There are two most common arguments from the fans:
1) Mirkwood deserves greater importance in Lorien faction (or even deserves to be separate faction), because of its presence in the whole Hobbit trilogy, plus Legolas in LOTR trilogy.
2) Tauriel should be playable permanently, because of her importance in the Hobbit movies and also that in the mod aren't enough women's heroines. She would be brilliant scout hero with movie feeling but such role already have Rumil and Orophin. ... But scout hero can't be part of the outpost.

So far Mirkwood occupied only outpost.
Speaking in general logic - you need from the outpost mainly that kind of units that isn't in the main base ... and in the settlement you should find units that are cheap and fast.
In the Lothlorien's case light units are in the base, while heavy units belong to outpost. It fits. What doesn't too fit are settlements - part of them are beornings and ents, so neither  cheap, nor fast units.

Concerning heroes:
Thranduil is army leader and tank, he fits well as leader of Mirkwood units.
Opposite case is Legolas, mass slayer with hero killer aspect, but we can say that he is primarily interesting agile hero for whom is quite late to be recruited from outpost.
Tauriel is agile scout hero with a melee focus. Currently is only summonable through spellbook for short period of time. Adding her now shouldn't be problem concerning numbers cause Frodo and Sam will be gone and we also support idea to make Rumil and Orophin as a one-hero concept.

To sum up:
1) Legolas should be recruitable earlier
2) Tauriel should be permanent and work as a scout for players who don't prefer Rumil and Orophin
3) Settlements need fast, cheap, and agile units in the beginning of the game
And in general - Mirkwood deserves greater importance in the whole faction


Solution is quite simple and connects all points:

Border patrol
In the movies, we can see that Legolas definitely isn't ruler like his father, rather agile and quick elf who enjoys forest and team work with Tauriel and other light elves, who are on duty to guard borders.


So we suggest to move Legolas from the late outpost to earlier settlement, together with Tauriel who now be permanent (not to mention that her full skillset teams up with Legolas), and Mirkwood guards who will be recruitable as the cheap and fast units in the settlement as well.



And what will be the new spellbook spell instead?

Feasts of Mirkwood
The Elves of Mirkwood raise a feast which offers the best vine from Dorwinion. The feast generates resources, raises the commandpoints by 30 and reveals stealth units. Dorwinion's vine provides fear resistance and +15 % attack bonus to nearby allied units. If enemies get very near the feast, the elves will vanish immediately. The feast may only be summoned thrice at the same time.


It's well known Thranduil's ultimate ability. We think that suits much better as a spellbook spell, fits into defensive row but mainly works with the overall hit and run gameplay tactic.
Problem is that Thranduil is tank and army leader ... and such skill is quite out of place in his skillset (although without doubt lore accurate).

We removed healing effect cause it's now implemented in Refuge in the Woods spell, and added attack bonus and fear resistance through the vine - at least some connection to Dorwinions. Also blessed Galadriel will lose skillset, which means also passive aura which provides fear resistance will be gone.

Again - and what will be Thranduil's new ability instead?

Just check our completely reworked Thranduil thread!  :)

https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,35644.msg472687.html#msg472687


We think that our idea connects all Mirkwood wishes and problematic faction's aspects into one compromise solution.

We are looking forward to debate with you, but mainly Edaining! xD


« Letzte Änderung: 23. Jan 2019, 20:19 von Tiberius Ogden »

Gnomi

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Re: Legolas and Tauriel
« Antwort #1 am: 21. Jan 2019, 15:23 »
I won't go into detail for the most part, just one thing:
We made a pool about Tauriel being permanent.
The vast majority of our fans (even though someone made 20 accounts to vote against it!) voted for Tauriel just being a temporary summon and not a permanent hero.
That's why she is just a summon. We literally gave the community the choice to decide how we should integrate her and then made it like the community wanted it.^^
We just made her recruitable permanently on one map as a small present for all the others, but we won't make her permanent.

Tiberius Ogden

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Re: Legolas and Tauriel
« Antwort #2 am: 21. Jan 2019, 15:42 »
We made a pool about Tauriel being permanent.
The vast majority of our fans (even though someone made 20 accounts to vote against it!) voted for Tauriel just being a temporary summon and not a permanent hero.

Definitely, I am aware of that poll Gnomi. I even remember that I was strongly in the camp "only summonable Tauriel and nothing more!" ... and voted against her.  xD

It's just concept, which might be be relevant in the future, if Mirkwood will be more important than is now. Or it can work as a map feature.

And as you mentioned, it's not only about her, but also about other things, which we will elaborate even more later.

Seleukos I.

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Re: Legolas and Tauriel
« Antwort #3 am: 22. Jan 2019, 17:57 »
Hi,
I think, apart from Gnomis point about that poll, that it wouldn't make too much sense to put a scout hero in a settlement-building. Doing this would mean, that you have to get this building first, and after that your hero. That would be a huge disadvantagt compared to other factiones.
Furthermore I don't think that it is necessary to make Legolas available earlier. He is, as you allready mentioned, a massslayer with herokilling aspect. But as Lorien you have Beornings to do that. They are great against heroes and units.
And all the other factiones only have three Settlement Buildings, so why should Lorien get four?

I don't understand what you mean with Mirkwood deserving more importance. In 95% of all cases a Lorien Player gets an outpost it is the Mirkwoodd one. It gives you very strong units (palaceguardes) and a very strong support hero. Furthermore it is economicly very strong. I don't think it deserves even more attention.

So I hope you can understand what I'm trying to tell you (not very best english^^).
best regardes,
Seleukos I.

Tiberius Ogden

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Re: Legolas and Tauriel
« Antwort #4 am: 22. Jan 2019, 18:19 »
it wouldn't make too much sense to put a scout hero in a settlement-building. Doing this would mean, that you have to get this building first, and after that your hero. That would be a huge disadvantagt compared to other factiones.

Completely agree with you, better option than outpost, but still citadel is citadel. It was meant as an alternative to boring Rumil and Orophin. But something like "later scout" ... rather than standard scout.

Furthermore I don't think that it is necessary to make Legolas available earlier.

I should say that this whole thread was something like invitation to Moddb users - to see what is MU, how can propose suggestions etc., but still - we didn't write it just for fun, we believe that might be relevant in the future.
And primarily - this thread leads to Thranduil rework.  xD

Concerning Legolas - who doesn't like Legolas? It was obvious choice to start thread about him.  8-)

And all the other factiones only have three Settlement Buildings, so why should Lorien get four?

You're right, it would be quite disadvantage for others.

I don't understand what you mean with Mirkwood deserving more importance.

It was reaction on Moddb posts. Don't forget that quite a lot of fans prefer Mirkwood to be separated, own faction. It's quite popular topic. So we presented compromise and added at least one new building, one more permanent hero and one unit, to be sure that Mirkwood will be more prominent inside Lothlorien faction.

Seleukos I.

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Re: Legolas and Tauriel
« Antwort #5 am: 23. Jan 2019, 16:59 »
Well, I actually think that Rumil and Orophin are the scout heroes with the most Micro-potencial in the whole game.
And, yes I understand why you want to add one more Mirkwood unit for Lorien, but I'm not sure about it's role in the game. They would be some kind of light swordsmen or archers, but this type of unit is allready represented by the normal Lorien swords and archers. And the herokilling aspect is covered by beornings. Maybe you can explain what the role of this new unit is supposed to be. :)

About Mirkwood as a seperate faction: I don't like that at all. There is way to few Information about the elfs of Mirkwood to create a other faction of it (heroes, units, buildings, spells, outpost, …).

best regardes
Seleukos I.
« Letzte Änderung: 24. Jan 2019, 17:04 von Seleukos I. »

Tiberius Ogden

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Re: Legolas and Tauriel
« Antwort #6 am: 23. Jan 2019, 17:34 »
Well, I actually think that Rumil and Orophin are the scout heroes with the mostz Micro-potencial in the whole game.

You're right, it seems that I am not able to play with them properly, because I have similar issue like someone on the Moddb pointed out - the melee scout is always dead as a first and then rest of the game you play only with the bowman.  :P

Maybe add both of them toogle switch or make them only ranged would help to solve it.

About Mirkwood as a seperate faction: I don't like that at all. There is way to few Information About the elfs of Mirkwood to create a other faction of it (heroes, units, buildings, spells, outpost, …).

I also think that are included well on the outpost, as a part of complex Woodland faction. Complex factions are something what makes 4.0 so characteristic.  :)

But I utterly disagree that there aren't enough materials to make them separate faction. We have the whole Hobbit trilogy about Mirkwood!  xD ... Which is something what Rhun, Harad, and funny Dorwinion (which would be faction based only on the mentions - nothing more) can't offer.

Problem is that Mirkwood would be too similar concerning units and some spellbook spells. Heroes aren't problem.
And overall both Lothlorien and Mirkwood would be diminished, in unity is power, at least in Edain.

But we can see that it's pretty possible - separate them - just look at BOTTA, AOTR, Ridder clan mod, submods etc.

Seleukos I.

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Re: Legolas and Tauriel
« Antwort #7 am: 23. Jan 2019, 17:54 »
Making Rumil and Oriphin both beeing able to toggle wapon would be to strong, I think. Just imagine your opponent would be able to harras your units on two different flanks. That would be horrible^^

Concerning Mirkwood: What heroes do you think could they have? Thranduil, Legolas, Tauriel and mabye that captain of the guards? Four all together. All other factiones have five at least. And what outpost optiones could Mirkwood have? Laketown? Lorien?

I think it is fine as it is now. And I also like the settlement optiones Loiren has at the moment.

Not to forget that Tauriel will get an other role in the next version.


best regardes

Seleukos I.
« Letzte Änderung: 24. Jan 2019, 17:03 von Seleukos I. »

Tiberius Ogden

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Re: Legolas and Tauriel
« Antwort #8 am: 23. Jan 2019, 20:16 »
Concerning Mirkwood: What heroes do you think could they have? Thranduil, Legolas, Tauriel and mabye that captain of the guards? Four all together. All other factiones have Five at least.

Yes, Feren, plus Galion (Thranduil's butler).  Also Beorn and Radagast fit more to Mirkwood, than to Lorien. In total seven heroes.

And what outpost optiones could Mirkwood have? Laketown?

Probably yes, cause there are geographical and economical ties. Ered Luin has nothing to do with Lake Town. Their heroes just stayed there for a while during the time of Hobbit, that's all.