[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Lothlorien Suggestions

Thranduil

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Tiberius Ogden:

--- Zitat von: )-(albarad am 26. Feb 2019, 13:24 ---I am glad you gave him his armor at Level 5 and the magic shield through Galadriels gifts.
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Yes, it's not only obvious, but also natural solution which corresponds with many other heores in the game and also provides option how to give Thranduil some really unique and acceptable gift.


--- Zitat von: )-(albarad am 26. Feb 2019, 13:24 ---the first one the main point I wanted to see

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It's my favourite new skill in his skillset, which explores Thranduil's fighting skills but also highlights his new ultimate unit support role that Lothlorien desperately needs.

We can say that his whole rework fills the gap in the Edain roles but still reflects our thoughts and hopes that he must be that formidable warrior from the movie. 8-)

Gandalf7000:
As someone already said: i didn't think Thranduil needed an overhaul before i read this. This is amazing concept for Thranduil, what a truly Elven king deserves. Well done. I'm in favor of this. Still I find the picture of Noble Wrath not quite good. It would be better if the pic resembled Thranduil fighting. Not an easy task, i know, but still.....

Tiberius Ogden:

--- Zitat von: Gandalf7000 am 27. Feb 2019, 15:13 ---As someone already said: i didn't think Thranduil needed an overhaul before i read this. This is amazing concept for Thranduil, what a truly Elven king deserves. Well done.
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Because we've got used to him. Well not me, or Walk, or many others. Cause we remember that day, when Thranduil was announced on Moddb. Immediately followed backlash from the fans that he is not like in the movies, neither visually nor his skillset. The truth is that he was like in the movies - like in the first two Hobbit movies. Edain team just was faster and crafted him before Botfa came out. And it was the main problem.

Then we at least invented his stances - first official idea from the Edain international community which was fully implemented, by the way - but it didn't help either.

Then ET crafted his armour, which was implemented via gift, well, it was right move to the third movie, but I also stated the famous line, which is still relevant these days - that Galadriel is not walking armory and that we should reconsider the way how Thranduil can get the armour in order to make gifts more unique.

Many fans critized his tank role ... "Tank, why? he is mass slayer ... tell me which abilities he has as a tank?'" and response from the ET, that "he has magic shield", really didn't help. xD

And time has passed and here we go again. Personally I would like to see Thranduil as a mass slayer as well. Problem is that such aspect is already present in the faction, at least two or three heroes have AoE abilities. What we can't find in woodland faction is standard unit supporter, and as a king should be the really great unit supporter with strong leadership.
But it doesn't mean that we can't implement mass slayer aspect in some of his unit support abilities. ;)
Synergy between the roles, between Thranduil and his units.


--- Zitat von: Gandalf7000 am 27. Feb 2019, 15:13 ---I find the picture of Noble Wrath not quite good. It would be better if the pic resembled Thranduil fighting. Not an easy task, i know, but still.....

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I'm sure that Walk will think about that, but it's not a priority. I've just recyclated current pic which quite fits - Thranduil looks noble there.

Walküre:
I think the current icon is well suitable for its relative ability. Being a level-1 feature, when Thranduil is still clothed in kingly robes, it would be unwise to utilise images showing him armoured and fighting.

If anything, I might craft a new icon for his ultimate skill. I'll try to pull something out of my magic hat ;)

Besides, a general question: has someone managed to find a new set of animations, as good as a decent replacement for his present, sluggish movements? Perhaps, this is the last major hurdle we must overcome.

OakenShield224:
I’ve mainly been avoiding this thread and the Grimbeorn thread for a while, but I feel like I should respond to the discussions since I do have a lot to say on the topic. I’ll talk about both here since the proposals are linked. Overall, while I like some ideas of the proposals, I don’t really agree with them. I’ll go through the in-depth reasons why.

Thranduil first. From what I can tell, the proposal is trying to make him into more of a mass slayer but mainly a unit supporter. I don’t really see how the proposal is making him a mass slayer though beyond giving him a temporary AOE effect (even though he already has a permanent AOE effect). I like the idea of Royal Counterattack since it does differentiate from Aragorn’s skill, but I’m not sure it counts as a mass slaying skill (it is basically a summon after all). I’m not really convinced by the supportive changes either to be honest. The current armour leadership has been removed and the attack bonus has been moved onto his level 10 (although buffed). He’s also had a small experience boost and a passive boost against elites/monsters etc. It seems a bit of a nerf from what his current supporting aspect is, and also a bit unnecessary (does Lorien really need ways of dealing with monsters and elites when they have the best archers in the game as well as very good pikes?). In addition, the current leadership suits Thranduil’s character a lot better. In the lore, he and his kingdom were always reclusive, acting defensively to protect their borders from spiders and orcs. It was only in times of need that Thranduil sent his armies to attack (e.g. at the Battle of Five Armies and the Battle of Dol Guldur). In the Hobbit book, even though he wanted his share of the treasure, he was reluctant to start a full war for gold, only going to battle when Dain’s armies arrived. I feel that the unit supportive aspect of this proposal is too aggressive to fit with Thranduil’s character and mindset. In addition, I’m not sure that he’d go on to lead the other units of the faction, considering how isolationist he was. While I did like the Arcane Shield, I don’t really mind it being replaced if the replacement is good (which I believe the Gift is now after a bit of convincing). As for the animations issue, if a good enough set can be found which portrays his grace in battle well, then I’d support that change.

Grimbeorn now. I’ll go through each of his abilities individually to say what I think about them. The only change I can see for the form switch is the removal of the extra building damage when in human form which is a little bit of a nerf but not too bad, I suppose. Ferocious Strike has had the “heavy damage” removed which again seems like a bit of a nerf. I like the Deadly Jump (even if it does just seem like another Gimli leap of which there are 3 in the mod currently). Survival Instinct is the same as currently so that’s fine. With Beorn’s Bees, you’ve said that they’d damage enemies when he’s under attack. That seems sort of redundant to me since, if you’re in the situation where you’d use that ability, he’d already be the in the thick of battle and therefore be getting attacked anyway. As for Power of the Wilderness, the main changes I can see are that the +100% damage has been replaced by being immune to lances and gaining extra armour, which is a decent trade.

Overall, while I’m not really opposed to any of the changes (other than Thranduil going from a defensive hero to an offensive hero via his support abilities), they mostly seem unnecessary for me to be honest. Current Thranduil is one of the heroes I pretty much always get in Lorien matches (along with Galadriel and Haldir) for how useful he is in game, and this proposal doesn’t really seem needed if that makes sense, at least compared to other aspects of the mod. As for Grimbeorn, I’ll admit that I don’t really use him that much in games, but I’m not really sure that this proposal would change how I use him that much. It just seems like a minor nerf.

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