[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] General Suggestions

Spellbook of Misty Mountains

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dgsgomes:
As 4.5 is very close and as many of us love the Misty Mountains faction, maybe we should start discussing some topics already, and the spellbook of Misty Mountains needs to have new features, as many of the powers from Vanilla's Goblin spellbook can't be recycled here.

First, I'd like to say that my following proposal is more about initial concepts as well as a compiled of ideas from people from the community; I just thought that giving some ideas would be of help to start thinking about new concepts for the next faction to be released, even though it's release is very far from close.

Before I start, it's important for me to say that I'm making this proposal based on the old updates about the Misty Mountains - and those have possibly changed in various aspects. Said this, I will explain every thought of mine about each spellbook power.


First of all, here is the draft of Misty Mountains' spellbook:
https://imgur.com/QaHL6yw


> Defensive/long term spells:

1- Drums from the deep - Summons a troll drum which gives +20% armor to nearby allied units and makes them fearless.
> The concept of this power is based in Angmar's obelisk power (but with a buff instead of a debuff, and with a fear resistance), is based on the lore and is also based in the fact that there is already a troll drum model in Worldbuilder that could be used.

2- Work Pit - Summons a work pit. Generates small amounts of resources. Work pits cannot be summoned near other pits. Each work pit summons permanently a horde of goblins from Goblin Town every 3 minutes. The player may have only 3 pits at a time
> The idea here is to create a spell which fits a more long term role and that fits with Goblintown, to have a mirror of the spell "7", which will be a reference to the realm of Gundabad (I want the player to have the possibility of using goblins from all Misty Mountain's realms even if he wants to focus on only making Moria's bases, for example). A work pit levels up just like settlements after purchasing upgrades, but they give only half the resources of an equivalent settlement. Each pit will have 3 Goblin Town's goblins protecting it, which will respawn some time after being killed. The summoned goblins won't be plunderers; therefore, they can't steal resources. Lastly, there is a hobbit work pit model in Worldbuilder that could be used.

3- Armed for war - The monsters of the Misty Mountains prepare themselves for war - allows the purchase of armor upgrades for cave trolls and mountain giants.
> Here is why I came up with this proposal:
1- An important thing to consider is that Misty Mountains will not have siege engines, but only monsters that will be used to siege; as arrow fire is such a prevalent feature of sieges, it is important gameplay-wise that this creatures get more resistant to enemy's arrows;
2- I want to make a reference to the Hobbit movies' trolls; I'm not talking about making those deformed trolls from the BotFA with blades on the hands, I'm talking purely about awesome plate armor for these beasts;
3- I think that cave trolls compared to Mordor's mountain trolls will have a -10% armor and damage (as they are smaller) that will be compensated for a +10% movement speed (as they are faster, more fitting to the faction) and the possibility to throw rocks from a short range; both trolls will cost 600 gp. Well, as the cave troll will work mainly as a siege ram for this faction (and as a player should not always have to use an outpost to create giants for sieging), I thought that giving it an armor upgrade for the cave trolls that would give them a + 200% armor against arrows and + 50% health for 400 gp would be a huge deal to make them more useful for sieging.
4- The mountain giants on the other hand are not lesser monsters like the trolls; they are greater monsters such as the ents and the werewolves, so I imagine that they will also cost 1200 gp. Compared to ents, they will probably have very similar stats (but with a weaker armor against arrows, even though with a slightly stronger armor against general damage and stronger armor against fire); also, Lothlorien has access to Treebeard and Quickbeam as stronger or more dynamic long distance siege units, so, to compensate that, I thought that giving an armor to the mountain giants for 600 gp that would give them +50% armor and +50% health would boost considerably the use of these beasts - even more considering the fact that they will only be produced in outposts.

4- Scavenger > Remains the same from Vanilla.

5- The Chiefest and Greatest of Calamities
> There is a poll discussing especifically about this power; for those interested, here is the link:
https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,34953.0.html


> Offensive/short term spells:

6- Cave Bats - Summons cave bats. They reveal stealthed units, nearby enemies loose 20% armor.
> Well, it's a spell from Vanilla which fits the lore, the bats can still be controlled; only the debuff was adjusted.

7- Warg ambush - In the selected area, wargs and warg riders from Gundabad will continuosly spawn and chase nearby enemy units
> The concept of this power is based on Gothmog's power to recruit individual orcs to the battlefield; this spellbook power, on the otherhand, will have stronger units that will spawn in greater numbers (but they also can't be controlled and will be temporary)

8- Awaken Wyrm > Remains the same from Vanilla.

9- Summon Watcher > Remains the same from Vanilla.

10- Durin's Bane > There is a poll discussing especifically about this power; for those interested, here is the link:
https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,35742.0.html


> Central spell:

11- Untamed allegiance - buildings will be protected by half-troll marauders (now settlements will be guarded by 1 half-troll marauder each and outposts and citadels will be guarded by 3 upgraded half-troll marauders each which will respawn some time after being killed), units produced in the settlements are recruited 50% faster, allows the drake lair to be built and the recruitment of drakes (passive ability)
> Here I thought that the idea behind untamed allegiance was really fitting for a central spellbook spell, but not as it was in Vanilla, because as soon as all lairs in the map were destroyed, the spell had no use; also, because of the fact that Misty Mountains will be able to recruit almost every unit from the creep lairs through settlements or outposts, there was no reason for this power to remain the same way. That is why I went for this new proposal;
- As drakes are the greatest monsters (and therefore will have a price of 1800, I suppose), just like oliphaunts, they should be harder to get, as they are very strong and levelling them up will be very rewarding strategically. That is why this power reflects an interesting idea: by having this power unlocked, the drakes feel like the goblins are worth their support and will fight as their allies.
- The faster recruitment speed for settlements is also fitting for this faction - it does not only consist in spamming units, but in swarming the enemy, quickly producing units that are naturally faster than most of other faction's units.
- About the marauders, I just thought of a way that could implement them just for a nostalgic feeling, but without being an important part of the faction (just as Edain Team wishes) - that is why they won't be controlled and won't appear in larger numbers. Also, I tried to implement them not in a broken way; for example, it will still be possible to harass settlements with cavalry, because a single half-troll will not be able to beat an entire batallion, even if it is unupgraded; however, a weaker/damaged cavalry batallion will not get much done against the marauder.


IN FAVOUR

1. GildorInglorion


AGAINST

GildorInglorion:
It's a wonderful work. First I thought %50 recruitment speed would be too op but then realised it's only for settlements. Every spell is just perfect. You have succeeded to catch the feel and aesthetic of Goblins.

dgsgomes:
Thank you for your support  :)

I will explain the point concerning the settlements anyway just to be clear - I had to make some assumptions in how some of the settlements would work, because the last update about Misty Mountains was in november of 2013 and left some questions open. Well, here is what I thought about each building:


1. Troll Lair: can train Tom, Bert and Bill, generates resources, reduces the cost of cave trolls (2 reduces in 10%, 3 reduces in 15%, and so on - the discount are familiar with).
> I thought that regular trolls should not be trained here, to avoid some nosense spam, to prevent this settlement from being too op and to give a reason for a Troll Cage to exist; on the other hand, as this building gives resources as well as discount for trolls, it will surely be constantly built.

2. Warg Lair: can train Gundabad wargs, generates resources, reduces the cost of Gundabad warg riders (2 reduces in 10%, 3 reduces in 15%, the same thing).
> I think of this building being very useful for early and mid game if functioning this way; Gundabad wargs can be used to rush enemy units in the early game (just as Angmar wolves), and the discount that this settlement provides will be of use in the mid game if the player decides to go for Gundabad, as he can have access to a cheaper and strong cavalry force.

3. Goblin Lair: can train goblin fighters and goblin spearmen, generates resources, goblins near the lair get a +30% damage boost (just like Rohan's farms)
> Differently of the Ruin, which will be in a Moria base and will be used for creating goblin fighters, goblin archers and goblin drummers, in the settlement you will be able to create goblin spearmen (even though they are weak, they can help prevent cavalry harassment in the early game), but as goblins from the lair are more "primitive", in the settlement you won't have access to goblins archers and drummers, and goblins from there won't have access to weapon and armor upgrades (such as scavenged armament).


So, even though +50% recruitment speed might look scary, it will not be accessed from the very start of the game; also, settlements won't be able to build very strong units, they will just emphasize the "swarming" feature of the Misty Mountains.


For those interested, here is the article that inspired these ideas:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/edain-mod/news/the-road-to-edain-40-misty-mountains-part-one


EDIT: I just red that the Slave Prison from Goblintown was the building chosen to give discount for trolls; even though it does not make much sense to me, as perphaps it should give discount to Goblintown's own units, I was wrong with that assumption

GildorInglorion:
It saddens me the faction won't have goblin spearmens in that version too.(They didn't have it also in 3.8.1, but you were able to train them from lairs.) But anyway, if your suggestion will be implemented into the game it would be really cool. Otherwise you can not stand a chance against cavalry armies in the early game. I don't say goblin spearmens can stop cavalries on their own and they shouldn't anyway, I like them weak  :D but at least they can slow the cavalries more and can give them slightly more damage.

I liked the logic behind the troll lair. Massing strong cave trolls would be so bad for the enemy even if it's the mid game or late. I hope they impelement all your works, not just only these.

tolgayurdal:
Greetings!

This is the rightest place to offer the Misty Mountains spellbook, i think. Actually i am not an expert about the faction but i would like to share my ideas.


Tier 1
•   Dwelt in the Mountains: Target recruitment building recruits a battallion instantly for free.
•   Cave Bats: Vanilla. Dynamic vision bonus and debuff enemies.


Tier 2
•   Drums from the Deep: Enemies nearby the selected Moria passageway fear with the sound for a time.
•   Onslaught from Below: Already explained by the team.
https://www.moddb.com/mods/edain-mod/news/the-road-to-edain-40-misty-mountains-part-two


Tier 3
•   Pact of Hate: Passive. Enables Giant and Dragon Lair outposts to produce resources and doubles the settlements' income and guards.
•   Scavenger: Passive. Vanilla. Grants gold for killing.
•   Watcher in the Water: Vanilla. Summons the watcher for a time.
•   Awakened Wyrm: Walküre had a remarkable work about it.
https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,35850.0.html


Central Spell•   The Usurper: AulëTheSmith had crafted outstanding consept for Smaug.
https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,34953.0.html


Tier 4
The Balrog has been a mystery due to Edain 4.x. Clearly he is not only too strong for one spell but also the player should not access him whenever he attacks. This does not sound canonicle for his nature. The demon settled in Moria at first and claimed there his habitat after awoke. So it is perfect for ultimate defensive spell as guarding his base from anything else.

But only defensive usage would be a waste for a power like it. If Sauron could dominate the earth, Durin’s Bane definitely would be an attack force on the battlefield. Also his presence is attached through the armies of mountains. The cooperation between them encourges the invasion whole map.
 
•   Durin’s Bane: Out of controlled Balrog attacks ALL units within the target Moria base with his fury for a time. When he has awakened, the buildings stop working during that time.
•   Natural Allegiance: Enables to control Balrog if he has been summoned for a time. He can use his wings to reach wherever the player wants. All ally units on the map gains damage bonus and can not knock back while the spell is activated.
 
When Balrog has shown at the beginning, all Moria goblins flee and give up the labour with fear. But when they became allies, leads the charge mapwide.

The Conclusion:

With this way Misty Mountains can not be more offensive than Mordor or Isengard, and invade whole Middle Earth alone without Balrog. Plus the disadvantage of defensive spell can be tolerated by the offensive’s mapwide efffect. To sum up, dividing it to two spells consummates the circle into the integrate. 
Best regards.

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