[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Mordor Suggestions

Changes to Ring Hero Sauron's abilities

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The_Necromancer0:
This suggestion stems from a discussion we had on Discord concerning Sauron's Ring Hero abilities. We felt that some of them could be change to fit more accurately with the lore and hopefully to make him a more interesting hero to use tactically. Our ideas and opinion differed on some of the abilities to change and what to change them into so I will leave my thoughts here and I hope does that also participated in the discussion on Discord will leave theirs so we get a maximum of suggestions.

Our first target during the discussion was, surprisingly, Dark Will. The discussion revolved around the fact that Sauron was never really a great warrior considering he was a Maiar. Even when boosted by the One Ring, at the peak of his power, he was defeated by a Man and an Elf. Sure, they were not just any man and elf but two of the most important figures of their time and powerful warriors, however, Sauron was at the utmost peak of his power and possessed the One Ring. Plus, at no point does it say that they were defeated by Sauron's strength at arms. No, as far as we know, both were literally consumed alive by the Sauron's body heat:


--- Zitat --- maybe, the heat of Sauron’s hand, which was black and yet burned like fire, and so Gil-galad was destroyed
--- Ende Zitat ---

As for Elendil, if we are to believe the unfinished tales, his corpse (read ashes) could fit in a casket small enough to be carried by Isildur. And yet, this feature of Sauron is not present in-game, which is where this proposal's first part comes in. A new passive to replace Dark Will:


--- Zitat ---Fiery Presence
Sauron emanates an intense heat, affecting all of those in direct combat with them. Enemies in a very small area around him take fire damage over time, those strong enough to survive the heat for longer than a few seconds also lose some armor and attack due to the heat.

--- Ende Zitat ---

Such a passive also has the goal of exploring the power of high level passives, something I don't think Edain does a lot. From memory, the only heroes with a high level passive are Beregond and Aragorn. High level passives has always be a concept that really interested me, and I wish to see more in Edain. Anyways, moving on.

Concerning another ability Consuming Darkness, this one we had more disagreements over and since I will be giving my thoughts, which are not those of everyone that was involved in the discussion. My thoughts on this ability is that it is extremely oppressive as it currently is. I love this ability because unlike the rest of knockbacks it actually affects heroes, but I think making it castable is too much, my personal thoughts in that discussion was that this ability should, when activated, still create the consuming darkness but only around Sauron, either then following him as he moves or simply staying on the spot it was initially cast. The second suggestion is made to differentiate the ability more from Elrond's level 10 and differentiate the way players are using it.

Alright, next one. Congrats for making it this far, we're almost done. The next ability we discussed was the heal, Foul Vitality (sick name btw). While I personally didn't see anything wrong with it, we believed it could be enhanced by being modified slightly into a more vampirism ability, a callback to his vampire form. This would still give him the self sustain he needs to endure in extended battles without making him completely unfun to fight against.

Finally, the last ability we thought could be changed was Rain of Fire, it's not really confirmed in lore. We didn't really have any ideas for this one but there is definitely a lot of potential.

WarOfTheRingVeteran:
Okay, I really like these suggestions. Especially the idea for a passive high level ability. I think it's great if we manage to make room for more lore accurate powers and abilities in the game. Plus a passive ability based on Sauron literally radiating heat... yeah, it sounds pretty appropriate for the Lord of the Rings

Uhh... I haven't used MU in years... so I guess it's customary to write that I support this or something?

Btw, I swear to god I can't for the life of me figure out how to change my username and put a profile picture on this website... someone please help?

Only True Witchking:
Maybe a short statement ahead: I don't think Ringheroes should be "balanced" in the conventional way (because they normally are only enabled for fun).
Of course they shouldn't be an immediate win, but currently most of them aren't much stronger than their standard versions, especially at lower Levels.
While I do think Sauron needs some changes, this feels more like a debuff to me.
Unless Sauron was substantially buffed in 4.5; weakening him would make him basically completely unable to compete with Gorthaur and his different forms in my opinion.

I personally think that the passive ability is a cool idea, but I would rather have it instead of "Consuming Darkness"; an ability which I never really liked and that is not at all supported by Lore.

This could then lead to Dark Will losing the "trample" damage, but still being a factor in showing that Sauron is by far the strongest being in the Third Age(even without Ring, he is stronger than Galadriel or Elrond with Ring); and should he get his most powerful weapon back, the fall of middle-earth could not be stopped (which is the entire point of Lotr  :D).

I would be totally fine with Sauron being a mass-slayer rather than the OP supporter/negative supporter (and good hero-killer) he should be, but I think if he loses Dark Will he should be able to compete much more against heroes in normal mode.
Gil-galad, Elendil and unknown amounts of support from Elrond, Isildur and Cirdan are not exactly the same as Haldir.

I will maybe make some suggestions in the future, I had a half-finished concept lying around somewhere.

Signed,
The Only True Witchking

Avatar: Upload image on image host site (like imgur or abload), not larger than 120*150. Copy "Direct Link", put into the correct place in your profile.

The Username can only be changed by the Team now, there is a thread where you need to make a request: https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,34840.0.html

WarOfTheRingVeteran:

--- Zitat ---Avatar: Upload image on image host site (like imgur or abload), not larger than 120*150. Copy "Direct Link", put into the correct place in your profile.

The Username can only be changed by the Team now, there is a thread where you need to make a request: https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,34840.0.html
--- Ende Zitat ---

THANK YOU SO MUCH!

I'll change my username when I feel sure I wanna keep it, cause I guess I can't really go changing it all the tame

Ranting Misanthrope:

--- Zitat von: Only True Witchking am 28. Jan 2020, 19:06 ---
While I do think Sauron needs some changes, this feels more like a debuff to me.
Unless Sauron was substantially buffed in 4.5; weakening him would make him basically completely unable to compete with Gorthaur and his different forms in my opinion.

I personally think that the passive ability is a cool idea, but I would rather have it instead of "Consuming Darkness"; an ability which I never really liked and that is not at all supported by Lore.

This could then lead to Dark Will losing the "trample" damage, but still being a factor in showing that Sauron is by far the strongest being in the Third Age(even without Ring, he is stronger than Galadriel or Elrond with Ring); and should he get his most powerful weapon back, the fall of middle-earth could not be stopped (which is the entire point of Lotr  :D).

I would be totally fine with Sauron being a mass-slayer rather than the OP supporter/negative supporter (and good hero-killer) he should be, but I think if he loses Dark Will he should be able to compete much more against heroes in normal mode.
Gil-galad, Elendil and unknown amounts of support from Elrond, Isildur and Cirdan are not exactly the same as Haldir.

I will maybe make some suggestions in the future, I had a half-finished concept lying around somewhere.

Signed,
The Only True Witchking

Avatar: Upload image on image host site (like imgur or abload), not larger than 120*150. Copy "Direct Link", put into the correct place in your profile.

The Username can only be changed by the Team now, there is a thread where you need to make a request: https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,34840.0.html

--- Ende Zitat ---

   The new ability slot can even be extended into a full Palantir with which Sauron can utilise a new arsenal of powers, it depends on the mod teams eagerness and will, for there are lots of possibilities. Sauron's powers and weaknesses can be altered & transferred to highlight different sides of him.

For instance; Sauron; when he recovers his past powers through Gorthaur Form, gets access to his warrior form and the most of his battle powers, but then he loses some of the advantages of his previous forms and in every form, it feels like a new hero each time you switch between forms and have to read carefully each skill again for micros.
Cuz there's no an obvious correlation/resemblance between skills. I acknowledge that Annatar form should be unique, though.

Once again upon taking the Ring, he evolves into something different yet again, which is an inconvenience gameplay-wise, because, in addition to getting mostly brand new skills, you also lose the track of/bound between his previous form Gorthaur, again.

What I'm saying is that instead of giving each form a completely new style with very few useful abilities that have to be micro-managed to be useful, giving him a complete revision to keep his forms in line from his first form (Necromancer) to the last one (Sauron) could be healthier overall.
Also, we've seen that his shadow and flame forms were basically rendered into a single form in the film, besides, aforesaid changes can be adapted in many ways, like a new full Palantir with new skills or it can be also done through the removal of unnecessary skills (Power of Maiar -> Aura of Flame passive, Healing Skill -> A new unique sustain power) and we/you guys can substitute them with better options, like Necro have said, giving him a new/improved version of darkness aura for his ultimate form can actually be quite fun, like a dangerous darkness that unceasingly emanates from him for x effect till the end of the duration of the spell, again, that would be emphasizing his relation to darkness and maybe even control over fire.

   Yet another example for this is that ''Necromantic Power'' skill that imbues selected troop with necromantic power to explode upon death, but the question is why would you use such a painful spell when you could just go all-in with ur more straight and effective powers, like for someone who sang songs of power and magic, or reanimated old kings of yore, imbuing a single common troop of orcs just to explode upon death is just kinda a bit indirect and lame. 


   Particularly those relatively important parts together provide a better feeling of wholeness and uniqueness.

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