[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Dwarven Suggestions

Mithril mail mechanic.

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kmogon:
Hellow fellow Edainers!
I write because I wanted to move some important dwarf mechanic, which is the mithril mail. Currently, this system looks like this:
Dwarven heroes have 4 abilities and the option to equip with mithril. It costs 500 resources, but requires the presence of Khazad Dum veterans in the forge. Veterans, on the other hand, require a few other things in order to be able to recruit them. Player has to build a traveling camp in which ponies will appear after some time. Then player has to build a barracks and forge, buy elite equipment in that forge, recruit elite dwarven units and merge them with a group of ponies.

The mechanism for obtaining the mithril mail is interesting one, but it leads to the following problems:

- traveling camp blocks the possibility of obtaining resources (player could build a mine instead which will benefit him more ), which is completely unprofitable during early game. In addition, it is a building difficult to defend, especially for slow dwarves, which is why it is always a worse option than building a mine. In the later game, the dwarven faction offers enough strength to ensure that the construction of the traveling camp is not profitable.

- While veterans from Khazad Dum have an interesting weapon selection system, they do not bring anything to the Dwarves faction, that this faction wouldn’t already have during late game. In addition, the consumption of an elite unit and constructing special, external building just to have basic heroic unit or costly buff for heroes is not a good trade for most players.

- as the above problems take place, upgrading heroes with mithril mail is virtually unused in pvp games. Hence, dwarven heroes only receive one less ability from all of the above mechanics, which in the eyes of players make them less fun.

As you can see the discussed mechanics do not seem to be optimally implemented to be used during the game. After discussing the case with some users on the english discord server, we collected some ideas on how to improve the above three parts of mechanics (mithril mail upgrade, veterans and traveling camp) that we would like to share with you.

First about the mithril armor for heroes:

-Mithril Mail could be an active ability of the veterans or forge that can be cast on a hero to upgrade them, which would free up a slot in the hero's palantir. Give it a long cooldown and maybe a small cost to unlock the ability in the first place as well. Additionally that active ablilty could be locked behind veteran’s level, which would make player benefit more form using them in battle.

-it should be possible to give the dwarven heroes a new ability once Mithril is researched, which would both make Mihril more lucrative and give the dwarves one more ability, however locked behind an upgrade. The similar system is present in Edain mod already. Bill Ferny has it – it allows him to unlock next abilities by buying them in his palantir. By imlementing that system dwarven

Heroes would not only unlock mithril mail upgrade but also some powerfull skill , which could make going for that mechanic more appealing for players. That would neglate the current situation where dwarven heroes are less fun to play with only 4 skills, or where they are buffed to much to make up for the lack of the last skill.

 Here we need to look  at the other problem concerned around heroic units. If you obseve the pvp edain matches you can clearly see that most favourite heroic units are mainly cavalry or archer ones. In the case of cavalry, this is mainly due to the fact that the player must pay as much attention to the basic cavalry as to the heroic one. In this way, he receives much better units, which he must equally deal with in terms of management. In the case of archers there is a similarity, however, focusing on the most popular heroic unit at the present patch - Lindon archers, we can conclude that a good heroic unit is one that covers the weaknesses of a given faction - in this case imladris ranged attacks.
When it comes to heroic infantry melee units, they are in a more difficult situation. In a large group of units it is more difficult to control them, which may lead to them not fighting or accidentally dying in the crowd. A good heroic unit should have an ability that will allow it to stand out from the rest, such as castellans with aoe attack and area skill. So we came to the following idea:

- to expand their weapon choosing system. Allow Khazad dum veterans to choose between weapons which change their role as a unit – choosing spear would make them heroic speamen , choosing crossbow would make them heroic range. Also add aditional effect to other weapon options to make them more appealing for players. Mace giving veterans aoe damage would be interesting addition damage buff against certain enemies. In that way Veterans not only become more unique as heroic unit but also more interesting option to choose from while playing dwarves.

At last there are some ideas for travelling camp. Currently, it does not offer any services other than providing 4 pony battalions and being replaced by mine after that. This means that most players prefer not to „play” with the entire system of veterans and mithril armor. To change the current status, you could use one of the following options:

- to have another use for ponies. Allow them to be sold in citadel for good amout of money ( a caravan returning to home city with goods).

-give player possibility to send ponies to the nearest eco building to boost its production for some time.

-give it ability which can target allies from across the map and boost their speed for a short time.

the above ideas are intended to increase the number of reasons why a player would invest in a building that allows the use of mithril mail mechanics. What's more, these ideas offer unique ways of obtaining resources that can benefit the player who will be able to manage ponies well. In addition to the ideas mentioned above, you can also add one that improves them - increasing the speed of ponies for each subsequent traveling camp.


So summing up the whole idea:
- all dwarven realms have the same slow speed , while Ered Luin troops have access to temporary speed buff ability
- traveling camp serves as third economic building - it provides player with smaller amount of resources OR provide resoruces in unortodox way ( like selling ponies in citadel )
- while mines provide tunel network system and upgrade discount,  traveling camps provide speed buff ( in large area around them or as active, castable spell ) as well as access to heroic , versatile infantry and buff to heroes.
- speaking of heroic infantry , khazad dum veterans are able to choose spear or crossbow as well to change their role as unit if situation on the battlefield require that.
- they can also provide heores , via castable spell or via the old way, by entering the forge , with mithril mail , which not only provide armor buff but also unlocks new ability for each hero




Overall the concept of mithril mail uprgade has many layers , and I think , that by improving every layer by a bit, it could be much more appealing and usable by players online.

Of course, I would love to hear your ideas on how to make the mithril armor system more often used by players.I would be glad to start a discussion about this topic as I think that it's unique and interesting , but sadly not used by players too often. So if you have any idea on how to improve it, please share it here.

P.S
Thank you to those participating in the discussion on the discord server - Hastur Makyr, OakenShield224, Necro, Captain Corrigan , Julio and The Only True Witchking) for discussing the topic and offering the above mentioned ideas.

Aiphaton:
I like it.
Might even solve the OP-Ness of some Dwarven heroes in the EG/MG by delaying certain abilities up to a later point where other factions might be able to counter them.

CaptainChunk!:
Hi Kmogon,

I had an idea for a change towards the traveling camp to make it a more interesting building to encourage the players to use it more often. My idea is to add a new ability that for a short period of time, your units will gain a small movement speed bonus and all production buildings a small resource output bonus as well. As I said it should be a small bonus to both move speed and resources and in a short period of time, as I could be easily exploited. My thoughts  behind the ability is that, travelers carry maps about the region they are traveling to/in, making them travel faster and since they could be delivering goods to one place to another, a faster travel of goods means more resources gained. That's just a suggestion, and I know it can have some problems in it, especially balance wise, and I would to love to know if there's any. :)
At last, I like your proposals, especially the one to give the Veterans the ability to exhange their combat roll, looking forward to it.

Geethopapa:
Very interesting topic and ideas kmogon!

First regarding travelling camp, we could give it a passive movement boost ability to units (only infantry and Heroes) in a wide radius around it, that way players would have an incentive to build them near where their units are. This also solves the problem of not being able to defend the traveling camp in time as players would most likely have units around the travelling camp, as it will be build in an area which will will see the most action. Just an idea.

Also, regarding the mithril upgrade, I really like your idea of Veterans to have an ability to upgrade heroes with Mithril mail.

The_Necromancer0:
I personally don't mind the Mithril upgrade. It is a powerful buff and the fact that it costs a Palantir slot justifies its strength. However, it does seem like the veterans themselves could use some change, as right now they don't seem good enough. Not because they are too weak but rather, as Kmogon put it, because they don't offer anything to an already melee heavy faction and don't make it worth sacrificing an elite unit.

I wouldn't mind seeing a different choice of weapons given to the dwarves, they could be a very interesting as armour piercing ranged units. If they do pick a ranged option than they probably need different abilities. Deathwish can stay but stonewall would need to be changed. Also veterans going into a forge should refund at least half their cost, even if they do unlock mithril that still a lot of money.

The camp could probably use some basic defences, maybe just some slaved dwarven units that defend it? Attacking nearby enemies, this could mean the travel camp remains useful even after you have gotten all the veterans as zoning tools, similarly to the Lindon Tower.

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