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Witch-king of Angmar Discussion

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OakenShield224:
The general view in the community is that the Angmar version of the Witch-king is quite a bit more underwhelming than he should be, something that should never be the case for a faction leader. While he has some strengths with his AOE attacks, his buffs to other Angmar heroes and his ability to debuff enemy forces, other Angmar heroes are generally seen as being more useful ingame. Zaphragor is a far stronger Mass Slayer for example. Helegwen is able to disrupt enemy forces at a far lower price (although this will change with the movement of heroes to other buildings). The Witch-king has some hero killing potential, but he is not the faction's hero killer as that role is given to Durmarth (and partially to Zaphragor). In the grand scheme of the mod as a whole, Mordor's Witch-king is far stronger than Angmar's Witch-king. While his Ring Form is very effective in game, it's not the most interesting, with the only real changes being a new passive and an improvement to his snowstorm. In addition, there have been a lot of complaints about the Ring form not being accurate to the lore as any Nazgul claiming the Ring would most likely try to give it to its master instead of wielding it itself.

The Edain Team have stated that they will be reworking the Angmar Witch-king in a way that also affects the central spell of the faction (currently one of the least interesting out of all the central spells even if it is effective ingame). I have therefore created this thread to try and gather the views of the community on how this hero and spell could be changed in a way to make him worthwhile, exciting to use and fitting to the character. A few starting pointers for the discussion:
 - How could he tie into the faction's themes of sacrificial sorcery?
 - How could his aura of fear be included? Could it affect allies as well as enemies potentially?
 - Angmar is a faction that revolves around its heroes. How could they be involved with their leader?
 - Could some of the old Angmar features from pre 4.x be included in some way (for example, cold drakes and other fell creatures of the north).
 - How would Ring Hero Witch-king be changed?

Halbarad:
First of all, since Zaphragor and Helegwen aren't not anymore inside the citadel, the Witchking will be much more easier to get than both of the others (or the Witchking of Mordor). Second thing, I think it is quite interesting that the Witchking as the central hero unites more functions than one (mass slayer and hero killer aspects).

So first of all, what do you want so see changed? Which ability do you/ the community see changed? In what way is he worse than the Witchking of Mordor apart from not being able to fly? And do you think that he should be very similar to the Witchking of Mordor in his abilities or should there be some strong differences?

Some suggestions that could be discussed:
- I think that it could be interesting if he would primary use a normal sword and switch with an ability to his morning star, for example when using the snow storm ability. Angmar already has so many mass slayer heroes (Zaphragor, Helegwen, Gulzar and even Mornamath and Karsh) that the Witchking doesn't really need to be such a good one.
- He could get some kind of leadership ability that gets all units of Angmar near to him some bonus damage, however, if the vasales leader hero is on the battlefield, the hero benefits from his leadership instead of the vassal units. Could be interesting if he would make them faster when being on horse. His mount/dismount ability isn't that interesting when he doesn't have other Nazgul to follow him into battle, such a thing could help.
- Might of the Witch-King could be a good central spell in my opinion (was discussed once in another suggestion thread, I liked that idea. Although early Drauglin Werewolf could be a bit too strong). But yeah, the central spell we got right now isn't that interesting.

Suggestion for his Ring mechanic: How about giving him the ability to mount on a flying cold/ ice drake? Could be epic, he would be the only Ring hero being able to fly (until Misty Mountains releases probably). Summoning Sauron probably wouldn't fit for Angmar since the faction would have two leaders then.

tolgayurdal:
Witch King of Angmar[/b]

   As known, Lord of the Nazgul has been sent to destroy Northern Kingdom for Dark Lord. He is a chief of Black Riders as the most powerful one with sorcery and the ruler of Angmar. The truth is that he has not intended to be permanent king of where Arnor settled. He brought devastation to the world of men and then summoned back to his nest. So in the game, Witch King of Angmar should have a general interferer role with supporting own heroes. His abilities eventually needs a rework:

Level 1: Mount / Dismount: As usual, Mount/Dismount. But after he reveals himself and gains additional passive:
At level 3, Darkest Rider: As the Lord of Nine, wherever he goes, his presence lowers enemy units’ damage and armor by 20%.

Level 1: Service for the Deadliest One: All faction heroes serve him to get the peak of his power in the North. Target hero across the map grants experience to him while fighting for 1 minute.
After level 3, carries his Dreadful Aura that lowers the armor of enemy units by 10%.
When he reached to level 10, the abilities of the hero reload faster due to number of enemy heroes nearby, starts with 15% and increases by 5% for each.

Level 3: Mighty Sorcerer with Iron Crown (P.A.): Since his existance appeared as the ruler of Angmar, prevents anyone to reach him without suffering. Enemy heroes and buildings nearby lose armor and damage by 20% and gets poison damage with the first hit.

More than once, he chooses a rival to challenge for a duel and weakens him in several ways.

Level 7: Prey of Nazgul Lord: ALL units in a medium radius between target hero and himself are knocked back without any damage, the skills of the prey reset to just used.

In the most powerful time of him, uses sorcery to conquer enemy lands as known in both Arnor and Minas Ithil.

Level 10: Twilight in the Winter: Enemy buildings nearby him lose their sight and 50% productivity when he arrives (visually winter effects). Also Witch King disables his enemies to use any spell in a wide range for 30 seconds.

Might of Iron CrownAfter this kind of operation, the central spell of Angmar Spellbook requires a change:

Angmar heroes receive rewards that Might of the Witch King gifts without a timer to serve him better.
Witch King of Angmar and The One Ring
In case of he captures the one, his Nazgul identity is naturally revealed and seen as a god in his kingdom. When he gets the ring, more involves to the battle instead of driving it like Sauron in Black Gates before losing the one.

Level 1: Darkest Rider: Mount/Dismount and Dread Visage passive.

Level 1: Sacrifise for Witch King (P.A.): Every Angmar hero on the map grants experience to him while fighting as their Master. Also can not knock back and lowers armor and damage of nearby enemy units.
At level 10, they gain elemental damage rezistance permanently and the spells of Angmar reload faster by 20%.

Level 3: Life Drinking Blade: The blade draws all nearby units and heroes toward the Witch-King with dark magic and heavily poisons any enemy it strikes, reducing their damage by 30%. (same)

Level 7: Preys for Ritual: Enemy heroes nearby him are knocked back without any damage and can not use their skills against his sorcery for 30 seconds.

Level 10: Harbinger of Winter and Shadow: All enemy buildings on the map lose their function, armor and sight for 45 seconds. Additionally, freezes enemy spells with his sorcery during that time.

OakenShield224:
These are some interesting ideas. I'll go Halbarad's first. The weapon toggle would definitely bring something new to the table here with the hero. I imagine it would also be applied along side his mount, although this would mean that he'd have two ability slots dedicated to toggles which might seem like a limitation on the other slots. Something involving the cold drakes could definitely be a cool idea as an "icy" mirror of his Fell Beast as well.

As for Tolga's ideas, I do really like the idea of Witch-king supporting the allied heroes of the faction. He is what ties them together into one force after all. I agree on Might of the Witch King being tied in with the central spell as well although having it be a permanent effect may lead to some balance issues (for example having access to Werewolf Drauglin early in the game).  It might also be an interesting idea to tie the spellbook power to the Witch-king as well in some way. As for the challenge, I also really like this idea of him forcing a duel upon other heroes. Maybe another potential way of doing it could be with an Elendil-effect similarly to Aragorn. For example, he could terrify enemy units around him, forcing them to flee in terror while preventing heroes from escaping or using their skills when they are close to him. However, care would need to be taken to make sure that this doesn't make Angmar too powerful at dealing with enemy heroes as they already have Durmarth and Zaphragor.

Seleukos I.:
Hello everyone :)

I might just throw in some thoughts concerning the Witchking.

First of all I’d like to point out that I don’t think he is that bad right now in terms of usefulness in battle. He is overshadowed by Zaphragor, yes, but I don’t think the WK is underpowered.

However, this being said, I really like the idea of improving him on a conceptional level, and I agree that the central spell could be made more interesting.

I like Halbarad’s idea of giving him more than just one “role”. Tbf, he already covers several roles, like mass-slaying, unit and hero supporting as well as hero killing. I think all of this roles fit him quite well, so I’d like him to keep them. However, he shouldn’t be too good at every single on of them: Zaphragor should be the better mass slayer and Durmath should be the better herokiller.

I don’t really have that many ideas for new/reworked abilities partly because I think most of them are kinda well fitting already.

However, I do have an idea concerning the central spell:
It would interact with the WK directly and make his level one debuff passive only (maybe increase the debuff at the same time). This would “free up” one slot in his palantir allowing him to have a second palantir of abilities (after buying the central spell).
This second set of abilities wouldn’t be bound to his levels but to the tech the Angmar player is going for (a bit like the system he used in 3.8.1, I think).
He would have four abilities (because there are four slots left in the second palantir), each of them connected to another part of Angmar.
The first one would be unlocked by having a Hall of the king’s men level three, the second one by having a wolf-den level three, the third one by having a wight-lair (?) level three and the last one by having a temple of twilight (?) level three.
Now unfortunately I’m not very creative, so I don’t really have ideas what this abilities could actually do^^
Maybe the wight ability could make units near the WK heal themselves with every strike, or something similar.
The core of my idea basically that the individual aspects of Angmar (Carn Dum, wolves, wights and sorcerers) each unlock an ability (the WK is the one who united Angmar) that benefits not only them but the whole of Angmar.

Now, as you can see, this idea isn’t really far developed, but since this thread is just to collect ideas I thought I can just post it here and maybe someone  has any good ideas to add to my idea. Or maybe it’s just trash and it will be ignored^^


Best regards,
Sekeukos

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