Exploring once again the Ring mechanic

[Le Sournois]

I would like to share my feeling about the Ring system. I do not know if a lot of official games in multiplayer include the Ring and the Hunt for Gollum.

I guess, they are few because in terms of balance, there are some aspect of the Ring mechanism that are unbalanced

Ring Heroes are made for fun before everything, but fun and balance mixed up would be a great achievement.

Those are the 2 main paradoxes in my opinion about the current Ring system :

THE PLACE WHERE THE RING FALLS 

   When Gollum is near your ennemy camp, it is not advisable to hunt for him because your ennemy will maybe send his ring hero and "steal" your discovery of the Ring before you can benefit from it.

    It is a bit unfair. Not only have you discovered the Ring in a place where your ennemy could have more easily found it, but in addition, even if your find it, it will be easier for your ennemy to collect it than it is for you.

    You have to make sure your Ring hero is not far from the hunt for Gollum, but that is a quite difficult and frustrating gameplay.

   Advanced players maybe will try not to kill Gollum, and just follow him in order to have time to bring their Ring Hero but that is a very fastidious gameplay.


THE INADECUACY BETWEEN THE COST OF THE HERO AND ITS FINAL POWER

   The second main paradox is that all the Ring Heroes from all the factions are not as accessible as each other and the worst of it is that one of the more accessible will turn out also to be the more powerful of them all : Sauron

   Yes it is logical but it is also a reason why I don't put the Ring in most of my game because I tend to consider that the Ring breaks the balance of the game.


   I would like to propose a suggestion for these two aspects :

THE JOURNEY OF THE RING

   Without putting an end to the current mechanism of the Ring, the discovering of the Ring would in my suggestion trigger 2 phases :

-the first of 30 seconds where any units could take the Ring and bring it back to their base (except non Ring Heroes to avoid problem with flying Heroes). In that way, the player who find Gollum will  have a more real advantage over his opponent even if he finds him near the ennemy base.

The Ring could not enter the citadel. After that time of 30 seconds, the Ring would deceive their bearer and drop to the ground.

-the second of 3 minutes exactly like it is now where only the Ring Hero could reach it.

SAURON'S SYSTEM OVERHAUL

   It make not that much sense for Sauron to be able to collect the Ring when he is just a shadow at level 1. Before being able to find the ring, it has to rebuild all his strongholds and regain in strenght. That's why it would in my opinion make sense that the Necromancer at level 1 could not take the Ring.

   My suggestion would be that Sauron would have the strenght necessary to chase the One Ring only when he gets to level 6. Either it would be possible to deter him from taking the One Ring, either if it is technically impossible to deter him from taking the One Ring, he would have an option such has the one of Galadriel when she choose to accept or deny the Ring.

-Get the power of the Ring (requires the Necromancer is level 6)
-Recover first his physical form (Drop the Ring to the ground)


 A LAST SUGGESTION CONCERNING GOLLUM

   That is a suggestion that maybe is too much, but I wanted to share this idea. The Hunt for Gollum is an aspect of the game that hasn't been explored a lot by the mod I know about and maybe there would be a way to make it more captivating and more strategic.

   My suggestion would be that one : in the spellbook of all factions to insert a power identical to all of them that would be placed below the Central Spell and below the third range of Spell and that would read as such :

"HUNT FOR GOLLUM / GATHER INFORMATIONS"
'"All informations are gathered and all the signs are scrutinized to find any trace of the wandering creature Gollum. Upon purchasing this power, if Gollum finds himself at proximity of your units or buildings at a great range, his immediate exact place of location will be revealed"

   This power identical to all factons would cost 5 powerpoints and would be accessible only through the 2 spells in the middle of the third row and it would not itself give access to any other powers of the spellbook, that is how I would represent myself the idea.

   This power would be a risky investment and would requires a great preparation and space management. To make this power work, the player will have to place his units at very diverse location in the map to ensure he covers a great area of the map before purchasing the power.

   If Golluml is too far of any units or building of the player when the power is purchased, the 5 powerpoints are then definitively wasted.

   It would be a risky investment to a player that would think the Ring is really important maybe for a comeback. A player that masters the situation and has the advantage over his opponent will be less likely to use this power and try to find Gollum by more conventional ways, using his map control to find him in the long run.


That was all my suggestions concerning the Ring, I would like to place ideas for Ring heroes but I will make a comment in brief general ideas, this suggestion post is long enough.

[Fíli]

THE JOURNEY OF THE RING

   Without putting an end to the current mechanism of the Ring, the discovering of the Ring would in my suggestion trigger 2 phases :

-the first of 30 seconds where any units could take the Ring and bring it back to their base (except non Ring Heroes to avoid problem with flying Heroes). In that way, the player who find Gollum will  have a more real advantage over his opponent even if he finds him near the ennemy base.

The Ring could not enter the citadel. After that time of 30 seconds, the Ring would deceive their bearer and drop to the ground.

-the second of 3 minutes exactly like it is now where only the Ring Hero could reach it.

Your proposed suggestion will most likely not work for the AI, that is why the system was changed to its current state a very long time ago.

[The_Necromancer0]

I like the idea of having a more interesting way to actively seek out the Ring/Gollum. I wouldn't put it in the spell book though. In general, we don't want the ring stuff to interfere with non-ring games. Currently, there is no way to "actively" seek the ring besides simply just getting some cav and running around.

What I could see happening instead is a submenu in the citadel where one could purchase certain upgrades, cast powers, or even recruit units to help for the hunt. I'd love to have the option in a game to specifically go for a build that revolves around finding the ring fast in exchange for sacrificing economy investment and troops. Similarly you could also have spells and abilities that counter an opponent's ability to get the ring so that it becomes a real duel of looking for the ring VS winning the game.

[Le Sournois]

THE JOURNEY OF THE RING

   Without putting an end to the current mechanism of the Ring, the discovering of the Ring would in my suggestion trigger 2 phases :

-the first of 30 seconds where any units could take the Ring and bring it back to their base (except non Ring Heroes to avoid problem with flying Heroes). In that way, the player who find Gollum will  have a more real advantage over his opponent even if he finds him near the ennemy base.

The Ring could not enter the citadel. After that time of 30 seconds, the Ring would deceive their bearer and drop to the ground.

-the second of 3 minutes exactly like it is now where only the Ring Hero could reach it.

Your proposed suggestion will most likely not work for the AI, that is why the system was changed to its current state a very long time ago.

Would it reallly not work for the AI if after 30 seconds after nobody took the Ring the second phase would happen which would be exactly like it is now ? It could still pick up the Ring with its Ring Hero ?

Also, often if I want an interesting skirmish with challenge, I will not put the Ring on because if the AI finds it, I will be crushed. It's my feeling that in a lot of games, I would like me to be able to take on the Ring and the AI not and that it would improve the game.

The Ring option is often for skrimish quite easy we hope to be fun more than difficult ones where too much relies on chance : if the AI finds it quickly, then you have almost no way of countering it.

Also, there are other types of battle in Edain when the player has an advantage and the AI don't : Legendary Heroes, Elite, those submod work only for the player and not the AI.

However, I would not like for an overhaul that has been made to desappear but rather to be further improved.

[Halbarad]

I think it would be a mess if units would be able to carry the ring around, but I could imagine making every scout hero being able to pick the ring up and then loosing it after ~30 seconds, not being able to pick it again up until it vanishes. That way, you wouldn't have to rely on having your Ring hero (early on).
I mean it does fit, especially that Hobbits are the ones to pick the ring up and carry it without being truly influenced by it.

Another idea that I had and never posted, what would you think about Misty Mountains being able to gain controll over Gollum with Pact of Hatred spell (making him a hero)? Could be a really interesting way to include him into the faction. Although I guess the Ring should leave Gollum as soon as the player gets controll over him and Gollum shouldn't be able to find it (pick it up) for a while.