The gatherstow

[AmosVogel]

Dear Edain team and companions, i hope you are doing great. This time i bring an idea for the dundeling oputpost, here it is:

Since Dunland in Edain relies heavily on a primitive culture and considering what the article of Isengard says: Wulfgar calls the clan chieftains to him. I came to realize that just summoning the brutes doesn’t improve the experience as I believed. I would rather build the steelworks over this building.

Then another question based on the article appeared:

Who are those chieftains anyway? The brutes? Radagast may say: not good, not good at all! ^^

This rather feels odd, for I believe Isengard does not lack raw force, yet there is a chance of making it better without getting rid of the brutes, for this units are lovely memories of the Edain at its elder days, so here is what I propose:

Make available three types of units, led by a clan leader, in this case, a brute:

The Isengarders: those closer to Isengard’s influence, clothed akin to the rohirrim, perhaps as the traitors of Rohan do. A better organized battalion that can benefit from the smelters of Isengard upgrade, thus unlocking the purchase of heavy armor and forged blades.

Crebain clan: Unorganized, but many, even though they can benefit from the smelters of Angernost they can only get access to the heavy armor, this battalion is formed with lesser pikes, swords and clubs.

The outlanded: Saruman uses the land feud between Rohan and Dunland to wage war into the hearts of the dunlanders. A battalion made of desperate peasants that will take higher resources from both units and buildings.

Every battalion should get a clan leader, as the Isengard article establishes. This chieftain should stay in the middle (if possible) of each battalion. Also, this chieftain will get the very same abilities as now: Vanguard of Dunland and Death to the horsemen, thus this raiding units will wreak havoc into the enemy lines.

[The_Necromancer0]

So sort of like the Rohan Marshal system? Instead of three brutes you can recruit three individual clans leaders followed by their retinue?

[AmosVogel]

Kind of, yes.

But maybe two battalions per chieftain, up to six battalions overall.

Edit: you are right, dear Necro, because the player can choose to have any of the possibilities at its will.

[Elendils Cousin 3. Grades]

I don't know if I like this, it seems a bit like it makes use of the same differentiation we already have with the different choices you can make when you build the Gatherstow. Unlike the named captains of Rohan, there are no known characters to fill these specialised roles for the Dunlendings, which is a key factor in terms of atmosphere. Wulfgar being the sole hero for them makes him more significant, as he is the only named character in their army even though he is a rather cheap earlygame hero.

[AmosVogel]

Yeah, i know that there are no names besides Wulfgar, but the chieftains mentioned need no name nor a hero treatment. Just pointing that this building gather the tribes and its leaders. Being Wulfgar the arch-chieftain.

Yeah, i noticed that this makes a mirror of the abilities, which are truly useful. But, what i meant with the three different units was not to be taken literally but as an early draft.

Thus said, the brutes seem out of place in a very industrialized faction, for -using again your very words- they are raw melee force, which Isengard doesn't lack at all:

Our belief has always been that heroic units emerge from the history of a faction, and the Uruk-hai have no history, they were brought into being very rapidly to destroy Rohan. However, with this new expansion into Dunlendings this gave us a unique opportunity to leverage their strife with Rohan. Additionally, we also took this opportunity to add a second, long-requested, heroic unit to Isengard.

Why should they get an heroic unit, why not a semi heroic unit, as the scouts?

Where is this unique opportunity to leverage their strife with Rohan?

Also, quoting again:

When Wulfgar the Oathmaker united the clans and swore allegiance to Saruman, he became War-chief of Dunland, granting him the power to call for a gathering of the clan chiefs. The clan chiefs meet at the Gatherstow to "strategize", deciding where to focus their efforts. The reality is that the gatherings are little more than yelling matches, where the strongest chieftain usually gets what they want.

It's implied there are clans and clan chiefs, not just two common units -at a settlement- and twelve brutes to recruit.

This is why its very very odd how the socalled chieftains -whose hatred for Rohan is almost as equal as their hatred for each other- rally together, march to battle and its people don't.

[Zoger]

To be honest, Edain has never been a mod with massive detailed Units from 10 different clans that roam in every Region. You simply also don't need even more Dunland stuff.
You should be happy with the outpost itself. I didn't even know it was coming in the game at the first place because I thought dunland should never be a pure gameplay, but here we are. Now adding even more stuff? Every unit should have its purpose and play into the Faction's Concept, that's what my understanding of playing Edain for Years is the Identity broken down.



You maybe should switch to Age of The Ring, they have plenty of Dunland Units from what I heard.

[The_Necromancer0]

You should be happy with the outpost itself. I didn't even know it was coming in the game at the first place because I thought dunland should never be a pure gameplay, but here we are. Now adding even more stuff? Every unit should have its purpose and play into the Faction's Concept, that's what my understanding of playing Edain for Years is the Identity broken down.

There's nothing wrong with proposing one's ideas, that's why the forum exists.

Thus said, the brutes seem out of place in a very industrialized faction, for -using again your very words- they are raw melee force, which Isengard doesn't lack at all:

Isengard itself is very industrialized but the dunlending are very much a rag tag bunch. If you go specifically for Dunlending builds you will lack a lot of raw melee staying power.

It's implied there are clans and clan chiefs, not just two common units -at a settlement- and twelve brutes to recruit.

I think you're reading too much into a bit of lore fluff that was created to give a nice description to the building. The brutes can be seen as the bodyguards of the chieftains.

Zoger was right in that Edain tries to create units to fill a niche, not simply because they have the potential to exist. There is an infinite number of units we could add, you could see for example the Third Age mod for Medievial 2, they have fleshed out the dunlending into an entire faction with a huge roster. But we want to avoid duplication. I would then recommend that you break down what gameplay niche this new unit fills. How does your new unit generate interesting choices for the player? When would the user want to recruit this unit? When would they avoid it?

[AmosVogel]

Wow, how very wise you are Zoger, if this forum was indeed the Gatherstow you'd be the very first one to suggest surrender to the enemy.

I remember the times when this forum was filled with true Edain companios full of ideas and joy.

Anyways, keep your forked tongue behind your teeth. I did not came here to bandy crooked words with a witless worm - Gandalf, somehow 

You are right, dear Necro, i may had heavily pondered in the team words, that may be my fault, I agree ^^

Sadly i just wanted to improve something i feel doesn't fit at all. You speak about the body guards of the chieftains and still makes no sense, how is it possible for unnamed chieftains to get bodyguards while the Warlord doesn't?

Also, about unit duplication, let's just remember Mordor, Gondor, Imladris or even the dwarves, they all get at least two different types of similar units, and yet they all fill a role. The brutes, im sad to tell, don't.

Yes, they are a cool unit, but as far as i remember i hardly use them. Also watching Naodline or Caun gameplays, i hardly remember anyone using them.