Modding Union

[en] Edain Mod => [Edain] Suggestions => [Edain] General Suggestions => Thema gestartet von: Prince Of Ithilien am 3. Apr 2015, 00:27

Titel: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Prince Of Ithilien am 3. Apr 2015, 00:27
Hello, I have a small idea for Lorien. As an option for there small build plots they should be able to build some sort of tower or tree house, it could be based off of the tree that Haldir stayed in in the Fellowship where he was guarding the northern borders of Lorien. It could be similar to Rohans tower but instead of healing perhaps it gives off an ability that strengthens allied units. Just an idea because Lorien is one of my favorite factions.
Titel: Re: Lorien
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 4. Apr 2015, 18:21
I completely agree concerning external Lorien defense system according to lore ... and I think that team perfectly implemented it through upgrades for Mallorn trees, which are only on settlements.  :)
Zitat
The Mallorn Trees remain resource buildings but can be improve by different upgrades:
You can still only choose one effect, so the player has to decide on a tactic and link the chosen bonus to it. Every improvement has its own advantages. The following upgrades are available for the Mallorn Trees:

- Border Guard Spypost: Doubles the line of sight of the Mallorn Tree.
- Swirling Fog: Allies around the tree are concealed.
- Protective Ward: Enemies around the Mallorn Tree suffer a 20% armor penalty.
- Spell of the Dark Queen (Perequisite: Galadriel accepted the One Ring): The Mallorn tree deals damage to nearby enemies.
http://www.moddb.com/mods/edain-mod/news/the-road-to-edain-40-lothlorien-part-1 (http://www.moddb.com/mods/edain-mod/news/the-road-to-edain-40-lothlorien-part-1)

So we can say that another defensive building is not necessary because such functions will have Mallorn trees.

And Lorien is my favourite faction, too.  ;)
Titel: Re: Lorien
Beitrag von: Walküre am 14. Apr 2015, 00:10
As a first post, I couldn't avoid posting something on this thread  :P

By the way, Lothlórien is my favourite faction too, and its leader in particular :)
I really believe that this faction will be one of the most interesting ones of the Edain Mod 4.0 :)

(http://tednasmith.poverellomedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/TN-Frodo_and_Haldir_in_Lothlorien.jpg)
Titel: Re: Lorien
Beitrag von: NetoD20 am 14. Apr 2015, 03:33
I love how the team is approaching mallorn tree as exemplified by Tiberius.
But I believe there still should an another tree settlement which should work as a watchtower tree, not a mallorn one, defended by at least three archers where you can recruit archers and border guards.
Titel: Re: Lorien
Beitrag von: Walküre am 14. Apr 2015, 19:25
I don't think that a 'new' type of tree settlement is necessary; according to the lore and the characteristics of this special faction, the Mallorn trees are the heart and the main element of the enchanted Golden Wood, being at the same time houses, defensive towers, palaces and other structures.
That's why I appreciated very much the choice of the Edain Team of having made the main Tree House of the settlement the heart and the centre of the settlement itself, where you can buy upgrades, recruit simple and 'advanced' units, alongside the heroes of this realm.

This is how Lothlórien works; it's not a 'common' region, like the territories of Gondor or Rohan, where you can build or expand freely; the Golden Wood is a 'magic', protected and watchful realm, with definite borders :)

Instead of defensive towers or 'walls', I personally would prefer more to find a way to tie the defense of the settlement to the power of Nenya and Galadriel :)

Titel: Re: Lorien
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 23. Apr 2015, 18:47
By the way - nice Avatar  ;)
Titel: Re: Lorien
Beitrag von: Walküre am 23. Apr 2015, 21:20
By the way - nice Avatar  ;)

Thank you  :P
Titel: Re: Lorien
Beitrag von: Walküre am 23. Apr 2015, 21:30
White Galadriel for you, 'Mermaid' Galadriel for me :)

(http://imagegecko.net/upload2/image%20(1).jpg)
Titel: Re: Lorien
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 23. Apr 2015, 21:41
I think that it would be nice to see your Moddb blog also somewhere here.  :)
Titel: Re: Lorien
Beitrag von: Walküre am 23. Apr 2015, 23:23
Really? I could do it, but I don't think the Edain Team will ever add Valinor as a faction  :P

I'm willing to add a bit more to the blog, a little update  ;)
Titel: Re: Lorien
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 23. Apr 2015, 23:26
Really? I could do it, but I don't think the Edain Team will ever add Valinor as a faction  :P

Here are not sections only about modding.  ;)
Titel: Re: Lorien
Beitrag von: hoho96 am 24. Apr 2015, 16:37
Really? I could do it, but I don't think the Edain Team will ever add Valinor as a faction  :P

I'm willing to add a bit more to the blog, a little update  ;)

You can start a post in OFF Topic^^
Titel: Re: Lorien
Beitrag von: Walküre am 25. Apr 2015, 19:50
Then, I will do it  :) Wait a few days  :)
Titel: Re: Lorien
Beitrag von: Walküre am 29. Apr 2015, 16:15
Speaking about Galadriel's 'bright' form from BOTFA, that she takes when she orders Radagast to flee from Dol Guldur, after she has banished Sauron, there is a flash and a violent shock and she returns to her normal appearance; but, before this scene, there is a very fast photogram (that I managed to capture  :P) of her, still holding her phial, covered in a deep white light.
Probably this is the look that she should have had, according to the ideas of Philippa Boyens; I still hope to see something more in the Extended Edition, because the all White Council deserves it :)


I really like her phial, it is her own personal item, as it is the bow for Legolas and Tauriel, or the two swords for Thranduil; I would really like to do something about the phial, a tiny but powerful reflection of the holy light of the Silmarils  8-|
Titel: Re: Lorien
Beitrag von: BuddhaCAT am 21. Jun 2015, 18:22
I agree with the main theme in this thread. Lorien is a unique faction closely connected to the land with a "heart" as their center of their golden realm. Therefore the Mallorn trees are perfect of "extending" the reach of the golden wood and also the power of Galadriel and Nenya. I am very interested in the concept of linking Nenya to the buildings of Lorien :-) Do you have any suggestions to this Die Walkurie
Titel: Re: Lorien
Beitrag von: BuddhaCAT am 21. Jun 2015, 18:23
Walkure , sorry for misspelling
Titel: Re: Lorien
Beitrag von: Walküre am 22. Jun 2015, 04:14
I agree with the main theme in this thread. Lorien is a unique faction closely connected to the land with a "heart" as their center of their golden realm. Therefore the Mallorn trees are perfect of "extending" the reach of the golden wood and also the power of Galadriel and Nenya. I am very interested in the concept of linking Nenya to the buildings of Lorien :-) Do you have any suggestions to this Die Walkurie

Exactly  :)
Lothlórien is an unique place in Middle Earth, because, as for Mordor, Minas Morgul or Rivendell, it is a place in which dwells an immensely mighty being that with its Magic causes changes on the real 'normal' World (mostly Weather) and permeates it according to its will; that's why Mordor is a hostile and dried land, always covered by dark ashes and smoke, and Lothlórien is an enchanted forest, untouched and untainted by the flow of Time and by any form of evil or sorrow.
Given these facts, Lothlórien (a legend in the Third Age also for the very Silvan Elves) is clearly very different by the Woodland Realm of Mirkwood, although both the two realms are inhabited by quite the same elven kin.

Probably it is too early to make official proposals about a faction that has not been released yet, nor do we know if it will be released after the Dwarves or later in the future  :P
But, I can synthetically tell you that I thought to extend the protection that Galadriel grants the surrounding units and heroes with Nenya (her ultimate power) also to the settlement of Lothlórien/Tree House if she is next to it; she would basically 'personally' cast as a hero the upgrade of the previous Edain 3.8.1 'Schutzbann Caras Galadhons' to the settlement, or they could allow her to create a temporary magical barrier around the Tree House.

This is just only an idea that I had previously already proposed on the 'old' EIC on ModDB; I will surely reformulate the proposal better, as all the proposed concepts by the Community need exhaustive explanations for the mechanics of the game and valid reasons about the lore accuracy  :)
Titel: Ultimate spell for Lorien
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 19. Jul 2015, 18:00
I am not sure with "sunflare" as a ultimate spell for Lorien, and even with sunflare as a ultimate spell for good faction.


When Elves were divided, flood was moved to Imladris (and Last alliance spell was innovation) and Lorien received sunflare (and tears of Valar was innovation there).

I really don't know, but I personally don't like sunflare since vanilla game. Why?
 
1) Why sunflare when there is another and more suitable connection to sun - well known "cloud break"



2) Why elves are using sun in order to cause fire? Lorien and Woodland realm are in the deep forests. Why they want to use sun in order to cause fire? It doesn't make sence.


Elves aren't offensive and mainly use fire in their realms is suicide.
Silvan elves prefer moonlight and sindar pure light, but definitely not such exaggeration.

3) Technical aspect - animation, I really don't know but animation is strange for me. And it always remind me known bug with burning mad drummer troll from vanilla game.

Overall, I think that that Gorthaur has nice implementation of this spell, so I want to say that it seems more like evil spell than spell for some good faction.

So my famous question is - are we able to invent something more suitable? For instance tears of Valar fits perfectly for Lorien and it's really nice ultimate spell.

I think that we should think this way:

Many ultimate spells reflect iconic heroes or their abilities. For instance:
Aragorn's oathbreakers - Army of dead
Elrond's flood - Massive flood
Saruman as a skilfull pyrotechnist - Mines or Saruman as a lord of Isengard - Isengard unleashed
Necromancer - Gorthaur
etc. ...

So some demonstration of Gladys, Golden forest of Lorien, which can't be attacked, or we should take into account that spell tears of Valar demonstrates Lorien and second spell deserves some Mirkwood connection?

Some time ago we've talked with Tienety about it and we have some suggestion with army of eagles - for instance Gwaihir and four eagles like in the Botfa, but it would be quite useless, because eagles will have usual place in the spellbook + there is flying Radagast and many players would say that it's op and many players will say that it's useless because eagles are useless either way.

So what do you think about it?
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 19. Jul 2015, 18:07
While I understand you reason and points and do agree about the need of change there!I simply can't think of another Spell that will fit there! :(
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: -Mandos- am 19. Jul 2015, 18:18
When we discussed Lothlorien in the German forums I had a concept for the Lothlorien spellbook and in there I had one "path" as a mirkwood path, so I removed the sunflare and stayed with tears of the Valar for Lothlorien and invented a final mirkwood power.

I don't know if you know the Radagast spell from 3.81 where he summoned bushes with thorns to slow down enemies, but it was a little bit like this.

"The Mirkwood":
Summons plants and thorns in a huge area. Those plants slow down enemies by 50% and give them small debuffs on their other stats.

It should be a very useful spell for Lothlorien to make full use of their mobility and ranged units and it is another aspect of turning the battlefield against the enemy ^^

If anyone wants to look through the whole original concept (in german):
http://forum.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,3478.msg358641.html#msg358641

And all the other Lothlorien concepts (also in german), evaluated by many ( [uglybunti] ):
http://forum.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,3478.msg350930.html#msg350930
(with ideas for all structures, units and heroes)
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 19. Jul 2015, 18:23
Hi Mandos!
I'll check it. :D
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Adrigabbro am 19. Jul 2015, 18:50
How about a final power that would passively strengthen buildings from the main camp and mallorns? I know it would be Lorien related but it would stress out the "natural and unassailable fortress" aspect tied to Nenya. It could even have some additional mechanics.

And I see you coming Tiberius! One could argue that this aspect has already been adapted with Mallorns. I shall answer that is not enough to reflect this very important aspect of Lorien.
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Walküre am 19. Jul 2015, 19:05
How about a final power that would passively strengthen buildings from the main camp and mallorns? I know it would be Lorien related but it would stress out the "natural and unassailable fortress" aspect tied to Nenya.

Actually, this fundamental aspect of Lothlórien is already well represented in the ultimate power of Galadriel, Nenya's protection  :)
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Adrigabbro am 19. Jul 2015, 19:08
If I'm not mistaking, the team never said it would affect anything else than units though.
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 19. Jul 2015, 19:39
I don't want speculate, but as it is stated in the update on moddb - they have interest to do Lorien more playable, or in other words - more attractive, many heroes will have new abilities, new purposes etc. And mainly - Lorien is still in progress. ;)
And concerning your proposal - either way - why not? Everything is better than sunflare
xD
But isn't your idea little bit average for finall spell?

By the way - Lorien spellbook will be (and always was) quite offensive.
And even sunflare had some place - it means that we should work on some offensive spell as well. In order to replace it.
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Walküre am 19. Jul 2015, 20:06

By the way - Lorien spellbook will be (and always was) quite offensive.
And even sunflare had some place - it means that we should work on some offensive spell as well. In order to replace it.


But the problem is that the nature of Lothlórien is everything but offensive  :(
I sincerely don't like very much this 'offensive' element or characteristic of the faction.
This aspect, instead, could hypothetically fit for Mirkwood, even though Thranduil too has a predilection for isolation, on a minor scale.
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: ELB27 am 20. Jul 2015, 10:32
This is perhaps where the game must (partially) deviate from the lore. In the books, the elves in general and Lorien in particular are a peaceful folk who focus (almost?) exclusively on defending their enchanted, timeless home. They engage in war only when they are directly assaulted from Dol-Guldur. In the game, however, what player would want to just sit in his base and defend it throughout the entire game, having no offensive aspect at all? In order to make them enjoyable, you must give them an ability to mount an effective offense, supported as it is in other factions by offensive units, heroes and spells. A faction that can only defend its base will invariably lose.

Specifically speaking, I would give Lorien one offensive and one defensive ultimate spells. If the sunflare is not suitable (on which I agree), maybe replace the animations with something resembling "pure starlight". Perhaps Earendil can come on his ship to punish the enemies of Lorien? I can imagine him like a blue-ish ghostly (resembling Army of the Dead) ship that comes and pours starlight unto enemies (glorified, semi-lore-compatible sunflare basically  :P).  (I do not know much lore-wise about Lorien so these suggestions might be rubbish. I just want to stress that a strong offensive spell is a must for Lorien, along with corresponding offensive heroes and units. Canon or not, they must be made competitive and enjoyable in comparison to other factions.)
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 20. Jul 2015, 14:46
i think the spell should be like gorthaur s powers of the past ages but instead she becomes dark lady galadriel what do you say ????
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 20. Jul 2015, 14:50
i think the spell should be like gorthaur s powers of the past ages but instead she becomes dark lady galadriel what do you say ????
Have you ever played previous version? If you give the One ring to Gladys, she has two choices - either accept the ring or deny. Both her ring forms have enhanced abilities etc.
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 20. Jul 2015, 15:20
well she can turn dark for some time without the ring
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Walküre am 20. Jul 2015, 15:30

I know that we are still talking about a game, and I thus won't ever expect Lothlórien to just defend its settlement; every faction must have its chances to attack, defend and win.
I just wrote that I don't like very much the offensive characteristic attributed to Lothlórien, since it is a blissful shelter of Joy and Calmness; and the leader of this faction, Galadriel, is also a Hero Supporter hero and her powers are mainly related to enhancement and Protection  :)
The 'offensive' element is more relatable, I personally think, to Mirkwood, since they are wilder and less wiser Elves, and its heroes have a nature and roles much more oriented to fighting; Thranduil is a tank hero, Legolas is mainly a mass slayer and Tauriel is an agile hero.

i think the spell should be like gorthaur s powers of the past ages but instead she becomes dark lady galadriel what do you say ????

I had a quite similar thought some time ago  xD
A spell related to the leader and most powerful hero of the faction; my idea was though a bit different.
It is called something like 'The Last Act of Power' and it obviously involves Galadriel; it refers to her last display of Power/Magic in the Third Age, the destruction of Dol Guldur, and it would also be a powerful enhancement of Galadriel's powers as a Building Destroyer.
The spell gives Galadriel (Galadriel maintains her normal form) an additional and temporary power in her powers set, called in fact 'The Last Act of Power'.
This power has a quite large radius, but it can only be cast on settlements and outposts, and can only be used once.
Galadriel creates with this power a perennial violent Storm on a settlement for almost 25-30 seconds, which will attack (with lightning) mainly structures, but also units; this Storm decreases also all the armour of the structures involved, to facilitate the work for Galadriel or your army in the destruction of the enemy settlement  :)

I recognise, though, that it is an improbable idea and concept, since it is an unique characteristic of Mordor, and it would be kind of redundant using an ultimate spell that remarks Galadriel's powers (even though it would be interesting)  :P


Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 20. Jul 2015, 16:54
i think its a very good idea i like it
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 23. Jul 2015, 22:50
I would give Lorien one offensive and one defensive ultimate spells. If the sunflare is not suitable (on which I agree), maybe replace the animations with something resembling "pure starlight". Perhaps Earendil can come on his ship to punish the enemies of Lorien? I can imagine him like a blue-ish ghostly (resembling Army of the Dead) ship that comes and pours starlight unto enemies (glorified, semi-lore-compatible sunflare basically  :P).  (I do not know much lore-wise about Lorien so these suggestions might be rubbish. I just want to stress that a strong offensive spell is a must for Lorien, along with corresponding offensive heroes and units. Canon or not, they must be made competitive and enjoyable in comparison to other factions.)

I think that you are thinking in the right direction. ;)
We completely forgot that Eärendil is their beloved star, something such iconic, maybe more iconic than Elrond's flood for Imladris or Oathbreakers for Gondor.
We forgot that reason why is Galadriel called as a "Lady of light" is that she owns light of Eärendil and she can manipulate with pure light. 8-)
She will have some "light ability" as a blessed, and there is phial which will have Frodo, but in general there is no reference concerning Eärendil in the faction (except of two cases). Such iconic matter surely deserves some strong reference in the spellbook. In addition - the whole core of Lorien contains light:



I think that animation can have very simple realization. I agree that second ultimate spell should be something semi offensive/defensive and there are many possibilities - heal, damage, blindness, smaller range of vision etc. 

I was thinking about Lorien leaves, too. Some animation with wind or whirlwind which contains golden leaves - such spell can deal damage, slow down enemies etc., but I prefer first proposal. xD
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Walküre am 24. Jul 2015, 18:44

It's true, but I would say that the most important and iconic source of Light is the one radiated by the hair of Galadriel, the golden light of Laurelin, of which the Light of Eärendil is still a fraction, since it's originated by a Silmaril  :)

Yes, Lothlórien is regarded as a bright and wonderful and calm place at night; that's why I always liked very much the upgrade 'Schutzbann Caras Galadhons', since it enlightened all the settlement, and kind of gave 'life' to it.
I sincerely think that Nenya will rightly comprehend this aspect (maybe), as the source of all the Light and Joy of the realm  (**)

Since we are talking about Lothlórien's structures/architecture, this is a thought of mine that I have had for quite a bit.

(http://media.moddb.com/cache/images/mods/1/11/10679/thumb_620x2000/sshot0008_1413305553.jpg)

I really like the architectural style of Lothlórien and its innovative system of bridges/connections.
But, as we can see, the structures (especially the Tree House) are very different from the one of the Edain Mod 3.8.1, which are modelled on the concept/style of Caras Galadhon, the same style of LOTR (your pictures Tiberius); the concept that expresses better, I personally think, the Beauty and Light of Lothlórien.

I don't know why the Edain Team decided to change them (probably due to technical reasons), and I don't want them to be introduced again; this was just a small 'architectural' analysis  :P
What do you think about the difference between the two styles?




Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 24. Jul 2015, 18:52
What do you think about the difference between the two styles?
Honestly - new fortress reminds me design from Rivendell. 8-| Also "bridge" on the top is strange.
But overall - I really love everything from the fortress and everything around (and heroes/units inside). :)
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Walküre am 24. Jul 2015, 19:12
What do you think about the difference between the two styles?
Honestly - new fortress reminds me design from Rivendell. 8-| Also "bridge" on the top is strange.
But overall - I really love everything from the fortress and everything around (and heroes/units inside). :)

I had the similar impression, Rivendell structures placed on trees  :)
Just a rough idea, what if the Edain Team changed the whole concept of the settlement, placing the Palace of Galadriel and Celeborn (or something that resembles it) as the central Tree House, and replacing the bridges with the beautiful luminescent stairs (the one in your pictures) that the Fellowship uses in FOTR to reach the Palace, with the all settlement surrounded internally by high and beautiful Golden Trees?  :P

(http://media.moddb.com/cache/images/mods/1/11/10679/thumb_620x2000/sshot0009_1413305546.jpg)

I love the hero in white on the right  (**)



Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Gandalf7000 am 24. Jul 2015, 19:49
Hi! About Thranduil's concept what if his appearance (design) could be invented through upgrade in Mirkwood outpost (the same thing is with choosing dwarven realm). Player can choose only one of three Thranduils designs:
1) The defensive - Thranduil with his sword and staff and "bath robe" (like elrond)
2) The aggressive - Thranduil with his one sword and that silver clothes
3)The Furious - Thranduil with his BOFA armor and two swords.
What do you think?
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Walküre am 24. Jul 2015, 20:10
Hi! About Thranduil's concept what if his appearance (design) could be invented through upgrade in Mirkwood outpost (the same thing is with choosing dwarven realm). Player can choose only one of three Thranduils designs:
1) The defensive - Thranduil with his sword and staff and "bath robe" (like elrond)
2) The aggressive - Thranduil with his one sword and that silver clothes
3)The Furious - Thranduil with his BOFA armor and two swords.
What do you think?

I would prefer more a 'unitary' concept of Thranduil, with his common robes for the first 5-7 levels, and then an armour upgrade, via a passive power of him, like the one of Elrond, which will give him his royal and military silver armour.

About the aggressive or defensive mode, Tienety once made on the EIC an interesting proposal about Thranduil's stances that Ealendril appreciated.
This proposal was also one of the few official concept proposals of the EIC  :)
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 24. Jul 2015, 21:48
i was thinking about the ultimate spell for Lorien what about a white council saruman elrond and gandalf comes to aid lady galadriel and when the spell is activated saruman should say Are You In Need Of Assistance, My Lady? whad da ya saying guys ???
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 24. Jul 2015, 21:56
what about a white council
I am also proponent of the White council, but is little bit problematic. Lorien has Galadriel and Radagast, Imladris has Elrond, Círdan and Glorfindel, Isengard has Saruman and in Gondor is Gandalf. I think that whole White council doesn't fit into the War of the ring time but into the Hobbit or maybe earlier.

But even in the previous version was map with White council on the battlefield so we can hope that some map will be also in the new version! ;)
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 24. Jul 2015, 22:07
man i was thinking edain is hobbit time and lotr so in hobbit time its ok to summon the white council it will be fun.
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Walküre am 24. Jul 2015, 22:08
Today I had the opportunity to examine again some lore significant elements about the Golden Wood and Galadriel, by reading again some passages of the chapter 'The Mirror of Galadriel'  :)

I have to say that I'm always amazed by the usage of Tolkien of words, there are often long descriptions of characters or places, but he also often wisely uses simple and sort of 'chosen' words, that have a rich and fundamental meanings, and many hermetical/hidden references.

These are the passages, exact words of Tolkien  8-)

Zitat
‘I know what it was that you last saw,’ she said; ‘for that is
also in my mind. Do not be afraid! But do not think that only
by singing amid the trees, nor even by the slender arrows
of elven-bows, is this land of Lothlo´rien maintained and
defended against its Enemy. I say to you, Frodo, that even
as I speak to you, I perceive the Dark Lord and know his
mind, or all of his mind that concerns the Elves. And he
gropes ever to see me and my thought. But still the door is
closed!’

Zitat
‘Yes,’ she said, divining his thought, ‘it is not permitted to
speak of it, and Elrond could not do so. But it cannot be
hidden from the Ring-bearer, and one who has seen the Eye.
Verily it is in the land of Lo´rien upon the finger of Galadriel
that one of the Three remains. This is Nenya, the Ring of
Adamant, and I am its keeper.
‘He suspects, but he does not know – not yet.

Ok, now a simple analysis and final conclusions  ;)

This is something I always mentioned in my walls of text, always referring to these passages, but now there is the final and direct proof!
Galadriel mentions her 'telepathic' fights with Sauron from afar (something that also Haldir says), and she also confirms that she always wins, really symbolising her status as the leader and guardian of all the Elves in Middle Earth.
But, most importantly, she also confirms that the courage, the chants and the bows of the brave people of the Golden Wood (the units, in the game) are not enough to fend off the Evil from her realm, and then she admits that Nenya (and her Magic) is the primary Power that sustains and protects the Bliss of the Golden Wood, preserving its timeless enchantment and its military defence.

Nenya has already been made by the Edain Team as the ultimate and most important ability/power of Galadriel.
But I think it's necessary and very lore accurate and characteristic, given these facts, extending the effect of Nenya also on the surrounding structures, becoming finally a mean to protect all the realm/faction of Lothlórien (UNITS and STRUCTURES).


Now another passage  :)

Zitat
She lifted up her white arms, and spread out her hands
towards the East in a gesture of rejection and denial. Ea¨rendil,
the Evening Star, most beloved of the Elves, shone clear
above.

Eärendil is the father of Elrond, but he's also importantly related to Galadriel and her realm, since the hair of Galadriel radiates the Holy Light of Laurelin (of which the Light of Eärendil is still a fraction) and Galadriel herself captures the Light of the Star in her phial, the most significant of her Gifts to the Fellowship.
The pivotal fact is that, in this passage, it represents the Good that protects and blesses the Golden Wood (via Galadriel), opposed to the Darkness in the East (Dol Guldur and Mordor); it would be really significative, then, adding this element (Light of Eärendil) in the Spellbook of Lothlórien, instead of the too general vanilla Sunflare.
Eärendil also symbolises the Might and the Splendour of the Elves in the Elder Days, as also the Last Alliance power of Rivendell symbolises the ancient Power of the Noldor in the Second Age.
The two elven factions, then, will have two ultimate powers that refer to the ancient and almost forgotten days of Splendour of the Eldar  8-)


It seems to me that they are very reasonable proposals, that have their roots on the pure lore, rather than on the cinematographic adaptations  :P

Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Tienety am 24. Jul 2015, 22:36
What do you think about the difference between the two styles?
Honestly - new fortress reminds me design from Rivendell. 8-| Also "bridge" on the top is strange.
But overall - I really love everything from the fortress and everything around (and heroes/units inside). :)

I had the similar impression, Rivendell structures placed on trees  :)
I agree. I think that Lorien need their own designs, especially for roofs.
maybe Lorien fortress could looks better with these roofs:

About the aggressive or defensive mode, Tienety once made on the EIC an interesting proposal about Thranduil's stances that Ealendril appreciated.
This proposal was also one of the few official concept proposals of the EIC  :)
Yes, this one of my ideas. 8-)
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Fine am 24. Jul 2015, 23:10
I like the current (4.0 beta) look of the Lórien buildings. Give them a try once you can experience them in-game and not just on screenshots :)
No need for a hasty change in my opinion. Why change things you have not even really tried out yet?
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Sir_Stig am 24. Jul 2015, 23:28
How does one become a beta tester?
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Walküre am 25. Jul 2015, 00:02
I like the current (4.0 beta) look of the Lórien buildings. Give them a try once you can experience them in-game and not just on screenshots :)
No need for a hasty change in my opinion. Why change things you have not even really tried out yet?

I know Fine, I too wrote that I like them, I was just trying to make a comparison  :)
There are far more important ideas/concepts that I want to share about Lothlórien  ;)


I really like the architectural style of Lothlórien and its innovative system of bridges/connections.


I don't know why the Edain Team decided to change them (probably due to technical reasons), and I don't want them to be introduced again; this was just a small 'architectural' analysis  :P


Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Linhir am 29. Jul 2015, 23:57
So... any progress with ultimate spell? (You asked me to come here, so i've arrived Tiberius... at least i thought it was invitation for me. :P )
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Darkslayer am 30. Jul 2015, 20:27
i think the spell should be like gorthaur s powers of the past ages but instead she becomes dark lady galadriel what do you say ????
Galadriel is nowhere near Sauron's power level (at least when Sauron is at full strength), so this would be lore-breaking
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Walküre am 30. Jul 2015, 20:37
i think the spell should be like gorthaur s powers of the past ages but instead she becomes dark lady galadriel what do you say ????
Galadriel is nowhere near Sauron's power level (at least when Sauron is at full strength), so this would be lore-breaking

Probably he meant creating an ultimate power that relates directly to Galadriel, leader of her faction, like one of the ultimate powers of Mordor does with Sauron, not using the very same idea  :)

Actually, it's the spell that turns Sauron into Gorthaur which is lore breaking in the first place, because the ancient powers of Sauron were completely gone forever in the late Third Age, after his 'death' (loss of physical body) in Númenor and the loss of the One Ring.
But I totally accept this spell, because it was chosen as a characteristic and unique spell of Mordor, which totally refers to the story and role of Sauron (the leader of his faction) in the Tales of Arda  :)
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 30. Jul 2015, 21:36
So... any progress with ultimate spell? (You asked me to come here, so i've arrived Tiberius... at least i thought it was invitation for me. :P )
Welcome on Modding-union. xD
Just check previous discussion. There are some ideas. :)
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Darkslayer am 31. Jul 2015, 02:42
i think the spell should be like gorthaur s powers of the past ages but instead she becomes dark lady galadriel what do you say ????
Galadriel is nowhere near Sauron's power level (at least when Sauron is at full strength), so this would be lore-breaking

Probably he meant creating an ultimate power that relates directly to Galadriel, leader of her faction, like one of the ultimate powers of Mordor does with Sauron, not using the very same idea  :)

Actually, it's the spell that turns Sauron into Gorthaur which is lore breaking in the first place, because the ancient powers of Sauron were completely gone forever in the late Third Age, after his 'death' (loss of physical body) in Númenor and the loss of the One Ring.
But I totally accept this spell, because it was chosen as a characteristic and unique spell of Mordor, which totally refers to the story and role of Sauron (the leader of his faction) in the Tales of Arda  :)

Fair point on the Gorthaur spell, but it's at least possible that Sauron can have that type of power.
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Walküre am 31. Jul 2015, 09:13


Fair point on the Gorthaur spell, but it's at least possible that Sauron can have that type of power.

Yes, this is an unique tool available only for him  :)
But, I think it would be interesting if Galadriel too had an ultimate power only related to her, different though to the one of Gorthaur.
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 31. Jul 2015, 16:08
still as an ultimate spell i think the white council summon elrond in his gold armor from dol gudur saruman different spells and palantir photo cause he s good gandalf and radagast i think its a good idea
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Walküre am 31. Jul 2015, 16:38
still as an ultimate spell i think the white council summon elrond in his gold armor from dol gudur saruman different spells and palantir photo cause he s good gandalf and radagast i think its a good idea

I would regard this spell, if it really had chances to be created, more suitable for Rivendell, since it's generally the 'headquarter' of the White Council.
And Lothlórien already has Galadriel and Radagast (temporary hero via the Spellbook) as playable heroes.
Furthermore, I think that a summoning power would not be so much characteristic and significant as an ultimate spell for Lothlórien; other factions already have summoning powers as ultimate spells.
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 31. Jul 2015, 16:58
well i cant think of something better if someone has something good say it
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Linhir am 31. Jul 2015, 23:59
As i said on mod DB, it should be something with mallorns. If not roots, leaves then. It can be strong wind, bringing them to wound enemies or something like arrow volley but with this golden leaves. (Once again sorry for my english, I'm not native speaker.)
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 1. Aug 2015, 00:01
arrow volley for ultimate spell ??? [ugly] i font think its a good idea  :D
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Linhir am 1. Aug 2015, 00:04
Very strong, on big area. Why not?
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Walküre am 1. Aug 2015, 01:55
As i said on mod DB, it should be something with mallorns. If not roots, leaves then. It can be strong wind, bringing them to wound enemies or something like arrow volley but with this golden leaves. (Once again sorry for my english, I'm not native speaker.)

I was thinking about a protective spell, rather than another one focused on violent disruption, with a wide radius on units and heroes, and solidly based on the lore  :)

It is said that Galadriel, in the Third Age and long before the War of the Ring (almost 500 years before), created an enchanted white Mist with her Magic to temporarily protect Eorl, the ancestor of the Rohirrim, and his army from the Shadows of Dol Guldur.

So, a possible ultimate power could give Galadriel the ability (via her Palantír) to summon this temporary magical Mist, that gradually heals all your units and the allies' ones in a wide radius, protects them from poison and fear, and slowly harms the enemies involved.

But Galadriel already has a holistic protective power, Nenya's Protection  :)
So, another solution could be a spell that temporarily summons on the field a Wood (of Mirkwood, or a Wood of Golden Trees of Lothlórien), which grants the units and heroes on its area armour's and speed's enhancement, while slowing down the enemies on the other hand.
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 1. Aug 2015, 02:27
good idea but i think the white council was a good idea too maybe for the second ultimate spell
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Walküre am 1. Aug 2015, 02:39
good idea but i think the white council was a good idea too maybe for the second ultimate spell

The White Council could be an interesting idea, but the only two factions which could be suitable for this spell, Rivendell and Lothlórien, already have similar summoning powers; Rivendell can summon alternatively the members of the Council of Elrond, and Lothlórien can summon Radagast.
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Linhir am 1. Aug 2015, 09:10
Or, maybe... ultimate spell can be a summonning spell? Celeborn could summon some elite troops from Doriath or Galadriel - her father, Finarfin. And Finarfin will got whole palantir of passive spells which would strenghten all units and heroes? :D

Or... daughter of Cel and Gal - Celebrian, she will bring joy to hearts of all elves and they will deals more damage and have stronger armours etc. etc. :P
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Walküre am 1. Aug 2015, 11:24
Or, maybe... ultimate spell can be a summonning spell? Celeborn could summon some elite troops from Doriath or Galadriel - her father, Finarfin. And Finarfin will got whole palantir of passive spells which would strenghten all units and heroes? :D

Or... daughter of Cel and Gal - Celebrian, she will bring joy to hearts of all elves and they will deals more damage and have stronger armours etc. etc. :P

Nice ideas, but yet very 'difficult'  :)

The Kingdom of Doriath was completely destroyed even before the end of the First Age, and the majority of Beleriand sank in the Sea, after the War of Wrath; the survivors of Doriath, or their descendants, are the Sindar of Lothlórien, thus already present in the realm.

Finarfin is the High King of the Noldor of Aman in Tirion, and can't thus go back to Middle Earth, not even momentarily  :)

And Celebrían, after being held captive by the Orcs and tortured, decided to leave forever the World and sail to the Undying Lands; I think that she has no interest and intention of returning to Middle Earth  :)
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Linhir am 1. Aug 2015, 13:44
I know it all... but Radagast have no business in helping elves too. He only cares about his animals, if we have to strictly stay in lore. ;)
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 1. Aug 2015, 13:50
good point
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Linhir am 1. Aug 2015, 14:13
And Doriath... i know it's destroyed. But some elves which lives there, are still alive. So, it could be done like elite batallions (limited to 3) which wears old armours, get old banners and fight for long time lost glory.  [uglybunti]
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Walküre am 1. Aug 2015, 15:12
And Doriath... i know it's destroyed. But some elves which lives there, are still alive. So, it could be done like elite batallions (limited to 3) which wears old armours, get old banners and fight for long time lost glory.  [uglybunti]

So, a kind of revival  xD

I think that the spirit and strength of Doriath have already been inherited by the Galadhrim, who carry on its tradition  :)
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 1. Aug 2015, 15:40
but Radagast have no business in helping elves too. He only cares about his animals, if we have to strictly stay in lore. ;)
He lives in Rhosgobel and has close relationship to Silvan elves and Grim/beorn. In addition - Radagast is for Lady of Lorien well known wizard.
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Linhir am 1. Aug 2015, 15:45
Right... but he's for them just old, crazy man from neighborhood, not pal which will fight for life and death, arm to arm with Elves or Beornings. ;)
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 1. Aug 2015, 15:47
he is in the council so he has to be important
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Linhir am 1. Aug 2015, 15:51
But he wasn't called to the council meetings.  xD
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 1. Aug 2015, 23:45
ow whyy ???? :D
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Linhir am 11. Aug 2015, 21:54
Maybe... it could be something called "Lothlorien Mists"? It will summon mist on the large area which will heal and grant defensive and offensive bonuses to every elven unit or heroe and slowly causing damage to enemies? 
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Walküre am 12. Aug 2015, 00:08
Maybe... it could be something called "Lothlorien Mists"? It will summon mist on the large area which will heal and grant defensive and offensive bonuses to every elven unit or heroe and slowly causing damage to enemies?

Yes, this is the main concept, in synthesis  :)
A magical Mist that protects and heals your and the allies' units and heroes, and repulses the enemies at the same time.
The same Magic that Galadriel used to protect Eorl's army from the Shadows of Dol Guldur  8-)

Something similar is present in The Elven Alliance Mod for BFME1, as an ultimate spell of the Elves.
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Walküre am 12. Aug 2015, 00:36
hola mi pana una pregunta como hago para que mi edain mod me salga la actualización del parche 4.1.1 yo lo actualizon pero no me sale nada

I'm sorry, this is an English Forum, and we are talking about Lothlórien  :)

From what I understood, you have some kind of problems with the update to the 4.1.1 Patch.
For any sort of released updates, you have to use the Edain Mod Launcher and search for updates; it will automatically find them and install in the Edain Mod's folder.
But, since I'm not an expert, I sincerely suggest you contact Turin_Turumbar here or on ModDB; he is the member of the Edain Team who deals with and takes care of this type of issues, since he is himself the creator of the Edain Mod Launcher.
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Linhir am 12. Aug 2015, 02:46
You shouldn't answer that Brunhild, it's not accurate topic, fact that he don't know english well enough to describe problem, doesn't justifye him. If you help a dumbass once, eventually you won't be able to wash away from them.
I'm not native speaker too, and don't know english language very well... but I'm at least trying. So, should he doing too.

And back to the topic, that mist could also strenghten allied buildings, if used on player's castle, and... well, weaken grout between stones of enemy buildings or something like that, if used on enemy base. :P
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: CragLord am 12. Aug 2015, 04:10
"Linhir The Wise", that is my new nick for you. :D

I agree with you, but I must admit, you have sounded a little jealous. Hehe. :P :D
Maybe that guy is just desperate and need help. :) Walk did a nice thing btw. That coment will be probably deleted anyway.
Sorry for off topic comment, simply couldn't resist... :)
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Linhir am 12. Aug 2015, 08:04
Trust me, it wasn't jelousy. I just don't like dumb people, but i have to deal with them almost everyday. It's tireness. :c
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Ealendril der Dunkle am 12. Aug 2015, 10:21
Lothlorien revealed!
http://www.moddb.com/mods/edain-mod/images/thranduil-with-gift
http://www.moddb.com/mods/edain-mod/images/thranduil-on-deer1#imagebox
http://www.moddb.com/mods/edain-mod/images/thranduil-on-deer#imagebox
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Linhir am 12. Aug 2015, 10:43
Nice, specially with gift.
But I'm curious how big is Thranduil's deer, compared to regular one, that normal units will riding on. ^^
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Adrigabbro am 12. Aug 2015, 10:59
That's amazing! It's great that you've taken Tienety's ideas and the designs are, as usual, stunning! Good job  :D  :)
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: CragLord am 12. Aug 2015, 15:50
Beautiful models, after those bears we have now and beautiful deer mount model with that fabulous horns. :) I am glad that team have deceided to implement that movie mount look. After all, Wooden King deserves  unique mount, which is different from standard elk model of cavalry.
I am really impresed, just what is happened with that cape on Gift model:
It looks like it is cut in half?  :o
Beautiful models, can't wait to test them. :)  8-)
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: Ealendril der Dunkle am 12. Aug 2015, 17:05
Zitat
It looks like it is cut in half?  :o
What you see there, is the normal model without selected animations. The bones are obliquely backward, consequently, the coat is diagonally backwards. Comprehensible?
Titel: Re: Lorien in general
Beitrag von: CragLord am 12. Aug 2015, 17:33
Comprehensible?
100%
I was too hasty with that question. xD