Edain Demo 4.0 - Your First Impressions!

[Dvar]

Spoiler alert  , hope campaign will be about the war of the ring

[LordDainIronfoot]

I would lvoe to see the Dwarven Campaign Completed and play it with the MOvie desings for Thror and Thrain if the Team likes them!And I would be more than happy to play a War of te Ring Capmpagin but fully following the Books events I mean all in it not like in the Movies,Battle of Dalem,Battle for teh Forts of Isen and not using the Army of Dead for Pelenor Fields!
P.S. how can one do not love this Mod and its team!! They are the best ! And I can't wait to see the Udpate!

[LordMaus]

CURRENTLY, THERE IS ONE MAIN PROBLEM AT THE DEMO RIGHT NOW which is once isengard or rohan or gondor starts to do their troops as upgraded versions ( shiny weapons, with better OP - overpowered armors  ) then MORDOR TROOPS EVEN DOL GULDUR OR MINAS MORGUL ORCS OR THAT 1600 OR 1200 ELITE TROOPS OR HEROES CANNOT DO ANYTHING... at 3.8.1 I was using catapults for that units but right now at 4.0 catapults don't give any damage to troops ( 1-2 deaths or some injuries to troopers only now ). Shortly, mordor cannot defend itself against that upgraded hordes or make a counter attack successfully after mid game ( 15 minutes later sth against AI ). And this issue happening after mid game for sure !!! At least make dol guldur or minas morgul orcs producing time faster plz with less cost. I play for a long time at 3 vs 3 and 4 vs 4 and this is the main issue right now.

another thing is you are saying you intend to make custom heroes weak ;but there are too weak really... we spend +1400 in game currency for that non-sense hero ,even we were really happy while customizing ourself (

there are really less settlements and big camp areas at most of 2 vs 2 , 3 vs 3 and 4 vs 4 maps. Some trolls cannot be seen and at some maps when you build another stronghold you are getting 6 or 4 building circles instead of 6 or 8. There is lag  while playing but not constantly ( but it is more than 3.8.1 version and I don't know what causes it too ).

AI is kind of getting stronger really faster than normal ways in short times ( it is what I realised ).

Make the good factions' castle and camp walls really much more and much more durable with more health really. Otherwise it is really easy to destroy it.

Note:
I play from the start of release non-stop and I have played too man matches already ;so I make a small feedback here, please consider these, thank you.

[-Mandos-]

Did you try trolls to fight upgraded armies? With the Nazgul Debuff, the Gothmog leadership and some orc overseers your armies also shouldnt fall behind completly. Of course, orcs arent as strong as upgraded Uruks, but the combination of your heroes and some special units like trolls or Mumakil make Mordor also really strong later in the game.

Your own heroes... well, I guess you can make them weak or overpowered, depending on your skill choices. It is not really a balanced feature at the moment

[LordMaus]

the problem is, they are coming with a big zerg with the combination of other AI too. I like to play as hardcore mod ;so yesterday I tried this again : 2 isengard + 1 gondor + 1 rohan vs 4 mordor at 4 vs 4 maps and I must say after 15 minutes, all AIs' armies were almost upgraded and attacked me or attacked me ally at the same time ( thy target one to destroy it first ). My allies came to my help always but it was not enough

I like trolls but enemy AI loves to spawn the spear units too much and your troll dies against spear units too fast and trolls are too expensive too; that's why I was going for dol guldur or minas morgul orcs.

In addition, I look forward for more 3 vs 3 and 4 vs 4 castle maps with more settlements and big camp options. At current version there are really settlements and big camp options ;and I want more castle style 3 vs 3 and 4 vs 4 maps really.

[LordMaus]

Did you try trolls to fight upgraded armies? With the Nazgul Debuff, the Gothmog leadership and some orc overseers your armies also shouldnt fall behind completly. Of course, orcs arent as strong as upgraded Uruks, but the combination of your heroes and some special units like trolls or Mumakil make Mordor also really strong later in the game.

Your own heroes... well, I guess you can make them weak or overpowered, depending on your skill choices. It is not really a balanced feature at the moment

AI is coming with huge archer and spear horde generaly with the combination of their other AI units too to destroy you ( AI target one player first to eliminate and you can understand it when they send their first smalll 1-2 hordes to you^^ ). I tried what you said but they are too many man really. Thy destroy my heroes, trolls, mumakils and orcs too fast with their upgrades huge combined armies...

I don2t know why but this AI(s) are always targeting me first LOL.

[klantai]

Did you try trolls to fight upgraded armies? With the Nazgul Debuff, the Gothmog leadership and some orc overseers your armies also shouldnt fall behind completly. Of course, orcs arent as strong as upgraded Uruks, but the combination of your heroes and some special units like trolls or Mumakil make Mordor also really strong later in the game.

Your own heroes... well, I guess you can make them weak or overpowered, depending on your skill choices. It is not really a balanced feature at the moment

I was wondering about mentionning that : I did find trolls (with armour and sword upgrades) to be very effective against enemy troops, but it kind of feels like you just have to field as many of them as you can, with a swarm of random orcs to have a fighting chance : all in all, I felt somewhat limited in my choice of useful troops. It's especially true if you don't manage to capture/keep an outpost, because then your only strong trainable unit is the troll : as such, in both power and diversity Mordor feels much more dependant on his outpost buildings than other factions.

I feel that maybe giving more importance to Southron/Haradrim could be a way of filling the "gap" : if orcs are mindless bow-fodder, it would somewhat make sens to have black-men be the better troops, maybe even with upgrades.

Another thing : I agree that in the movies orcs are the worst possible soldiers, only useful because of their vast numbers, but I don't remember it being that much the case in the books : they're not very disciplined for sure, and weaker than elves/dwarves/humans, but still...As such, I don't see why threre couldn't be some decently strong orc units (veterans maybe, or guards of the black gate or someting ^^).

Lastly : I remember some Mordor troops that gave the rohirim a tough time on the fields of Pelenor were half-trolls with great axes (I think that was it ^^) : not to mention there aren't many units with axes and it could be very cool (barring the very ugly half-trolls BfME II gave us for Misty-Mountains) couldn't they fill to some extent the somewhat vaccant spot of strong non-pike melee units for Mordor ? : P.

[Elendils Cousin 3. Grades]

Regarding strong non-pike-melee units for Mordor: Checked Cirith Ungol yet?^^

Also, Mordor doesn't get stronger by upgrading their troops, they get stronger by weakening the enemy. The more heroes you field, the weaker your enemy gets.

[LordMaus]

but if you check the patch notes thy are kinda nerf the mordor now. 

- Mouth of Sauron now costs 2000
- Gothmog now costs 1200
- Nazgûl now cost 1500
- Fortresses of Minas Morgul and Dol Guldur now cost 3000
- Peasants have 50 less health
- Draft spell now requires two points
- Gamling now longer grants additional upgrades with his call to arms at higher levels

why Fortresses of Minas Morgul and Dol Guldur now cost 3000 ? Mordor power is rely on to settlements and outposts too much comparing to other factions and if you lose some of these places you lose many things in general. In addition if you give importance to one side then other side costs too much money. There is no balance between each other and with this nerf mordor will lose its agresive potion more comparing the isengard and other 2 factions. This is my opinion.

[klantai]

Regarding strong non-pike-melee units for Mordor: Checked Cirith Ungol yet?^^

Also, Mordor doesn't get stronger by upgrading their troops, they get stronger by weakening the enemy. The more heroes you field, the weaker your enemy gets.

Well, I have only had time to play two games with Mordor, so if I stated anything incorrect, my appologies : ).
As far as I remember, in Cirith Ungol, you get the Hallberdier (pike unit), Black Uruk archers (archers ^^) and another melee unit to wich I believe you refer. I have made a few of those and remember finding they didn't look very dangerous or threatening, and I don't recall them performing anything outstanding, so I may have misjuged them ; I'll try them again : ).

As for Mordor getting stronger by weakening their enemies, you've got a point, and after reflection I may have been looking for straightforward unit power where it's not the main focus ; I'll have to test that more thoroughly, thanks : ) (and after testing it's giving me ideas for suggestions : P).

[-Mandos-]

[...] As for Mordor getting stronger by weakening their enemies [...]

That's the trick. Mordor has a crazy number of leaderships and debuffs in combination with an endless amount of orcs so you can really use everything you want.

Just fight against the AI with the eye of Sauron (more damage for your units), the cursed land (?) for more defense, Gothmog (more damge for your orcs and some extra orcs), Nazgul (less defense and attack for enemies plus you can destroy their formations with the sreech) and if you have the Darkness spell it gets even crazier (all enemie leaderships are negated). You just have to watch your heroes carefully, if its to dangerous, dont fight with them, just let their auras do their work.

For elite without Outposts you'll have to rely on heroes, trolls, Rhûn and Harad or the mentioned Cirith Ungol units (even though they arent as strong as Tower Guards, they are still better than normal orcs and if I remember correctly they cost no Command points).

[LordMaus]

when you will look at suggestions posts at your forum and make some feedback comments at Edain mod suggestion side ( by edain mod developer friends and demomodtesters ) ?

Here is my suggestions for mordor and isengard. Even myself I love my mordor suggestion much more^^ :

This is my isengard suggestions for Edain 4.0 demo to improve the gameplay more :

http://forum.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,30592.0.html

This is my mordor suggestions for Edain 4.0 demo to improve the gameplay more :

http://forum.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,30590.0.html

Note:

Please let me know what do you think about my suggestions, and please don't forget to make some comments there too, thank you.

[TiberiusOgden]

when you will look at suggestions posts at your forum and make some feedback comments at Edain mod suggestion side?

Please let me know what do you think about my suggestions, and please don't forget to make some comments there too, thank you.

LordMaus,

I am sure that we all are able to read and when we will have a free time, we will definitely support such discussion there.

[Gnomi]

As already answered in the other thread:
We read most of the forum, but not everything, as we don't have time for it and we don't answer everything after we've read it. If we do this, we would have no time at all for modding.
It's useless to ask us all the time, just try to make the community like your concepts, if many people discuss/like it, we will see that more than 1-2 people like the idea and we'll discuss the idea.

[TiberiusOgden]

I appreciate lots of options in the Create a hero! 

Hilda Bianca from the Lake town (only one person who is able to stand against the armies of Morgoth) finally in the Edain mod!