Smaug an the ring

[rosepe]

Hi everybody!!

I don´t know if the rol of Smaug with the one ring has been already defined. I want to suggest an idea I had:
Smaug is the last dragon and uses the power of the one ring to bring the age of dragons back to Middle Earth. When he gets the ring, he can set a new building called Nest of Dragons (in the same way Sauron puts the fortress of the First Age). In this building, you can recruit different types of dragons such as the fire dracos, the mini-drogoths from 3.8.1 (I really loved them) and the ice dragons that Angmar was able to summon in 3.8.1.
When the building is put, the ring is transfered to the building, so the enemy must destroy it to get the ring. As long as the building stays in the map, all dragons get a bonus in speed and atack (including Smaug).
I think this idea fits the idea of what Smaug have done with it, and the system is completely unique.
What do you think?

[The_Necromancer0]

I like the idea, but sadly I fear it will require too much balancing to implement. Lets look at this step by step.
1. Ring Location

  the enemy must destroy it to get the ring

Right off the bat that feels to op. The player gets the benefit of the ring but doesn't take the risk of having to use the hero in battle. The player can just pop the building right behind his base and he's safe. The foe can only get to with a mass rush or by inattention of the player.

2.Effect of building

all dragons get a bonus in speed and atack

Why? You could make it a temporary ability but don't just have it like that. I can see something like: if the building is under attack dragons around the nest panic and get a attack boost. But you can't just have a boost for no reason

3.Lore-wise

last dragon and uses the power of the one ring to bring the age of dragons back to Middle Earth.

I'm not sure this is lore accurate or possible in respect of the rule set by J.R.R. Tolkien

4.Conflicting quotes
[quotes] system is completely unique. [/quotes] this conflicts with what you said

in the same way Sauron puts the fortress of the First Age

I like the idea, I truly do. And it's definitely possible to do. However you need to justify certain things such as why the building provides that stat boost. Also considering that this is for the Goblin faction (i guess? not sure which faction smaug will be part of) you really want to define what role it plays. Best of luck 

[rosepe]

Well, I thought that the boost is necesary because without it the player could not have any reason to protect the building. Imagine that the player has already recruited a large group of dragons and he cannot recruite any more due to the command points. If there is not a boost, tha player could not have any interest in the building, and that is the reason I thought in a boost.
I know it could be a bit difficult to get the ring back. Maybe that building could be built in a outpost...
An the unique system I was talking about is that none of the other factions has the ring system focused on heroes and in this case it is focused on a building and on units.
Thanks for the answer!

[The_Necromancer0]

Good, I like where you're starting to go. Okay so implementing an outpost for the faction that will have Smaug. I like that.
Here's what I'm thinking following your idea. Once Smaug has the ring player can build Dragon's Nest on an outpost. If that can't be implemented just have all the dragons locked until the building gets the ring.

Dragon post
Recruitable (only with smaug in possession of ring)
"Mini-Drogoth"
Fire Drakes
Ice Drakes

Ability (Passive?)
Dragon Rage: Around the building the dragons get a boost. This is to give the outpost a defensive measure.

HP?
Outpost Citadel Equivalent

How does that sound? Any ideas on the price it would cost? Other requirements? Also could anyone confirm how that would fit (if it does) in the lore.

[kai69]

im only commenting to say that i really like this idea, specially the description of it "to bring the age of dragons back to Middle Earth"

[NetoD20]

I don't know if I like the idea of Smaug creating a building, but I don't think it's something terrible either.
Another idea could be when Smaug brings the Age of the Dragons back he could summon a lot of dragon-type critters flying from the edges of the map into the battlefield. Maybe they could come overtime in various waves idk

[Garlodur]

Hello guys,

I have this idea for Smaug as ring hero in my head for a while and I would like to share it. I thought it best to post it in this discussion rather than starting a new one.
I know that the Misty Mountains are not a priority in production as of this moment, but an epic creature like Smaug deserves a terrific concept worthy of its calamity.

Firstly, I want to give some details on how I imagine Smaug to be as a recruitable hero.

On Moddb in the thread section concerning the heroes of the Misty Mountains, I remember reading a comment in which his skills were like this:

Lvl 1. Toggle fly / land
Lvl 2. Dragon Breath (passive) / Fireball
Lvl 4. Fearsome Roar / Wing Blast
Lvl 7. Fire Flight
Lvl 10. Incinerate

A short explanation concerning the effects of these skills was as follows: the function of the toggle is very straightforward, Dragon Breath and Fearsome Roar for on the ground, Fireball and Wing Blast for in flight. Dragon Breath would be a passive power for Smaug, being able to open/destroy gates and empty garrisons at once. Fearsome Roar would be a regular skill that makes enemies run away in fear. I assume that the other skills were taken from Drogoth the Dragon Lord, therefore Fire Flight would be a fire in the shape of a dragon directed at the enemy, and Incinerate would be an attack with which the dragon covers a whole area in fire. However, I do not entirely understand how an attack like Fire Flight and Incinerate would differ from Smaug's standard attack when on ground, unless the latter would be like the Balrog's.

All these skills emphasize Smaug's role as a mass slayer and building destroyer at a higher level, but his standard attack should also contain these aspects in smaller amounts. On ground he is primarily a mass slayer / destroyer of resource buildings, and in the air a building destroyer with mass slayer abilities.

Whereas these skills are quite clear, I thought they were too simple and not so unique. I therefore propose to add skills that refer to other characteristics of a dragon (and especially one like Smaug), namely greed: dragons are attracted by wealth, gold and treasures of all kinds, and this should be connected to the Edain Mod as it strives to reach realism in accordance to the movies, books and other canon material.

Recruitable Smaug

First, his power is bound to the treasury of the player: with every 1000/2000 resources Smaug's damage and armour should be increased by 5/10%, with the limit to 5000/10000. The specific amounts could be altered for balancing reasons. This would be a passive skill that takes up the second slot in the palantir, after the toggle but both at level 1. An additional (active) effect could be that Smaug collects resources for a short time when he attacks buildings, although this might be obsolete as the Goblins of Goblin Town already fulfill the role of pillagers. The name could be 'Hoard the Treasure.'

Second, with one less slot available, Fire Flight should go. It has always seemed strange to me that a dragon is able to create a flame in a specific form (although it looks very cool), and this ability could be incorporated well in the Fireball skill: at level 7 the Fireball is blue fire and does 25% more damage and recharges 15% faster. Again, these levels can be altered for balance.

Third, the skill Dragon Breath seems rather obvious to me. I mean, isn't all dragon fire hot enough to burn through buildings? Why wait till level 2 for this passive skill? Therefore, I propose to have this skill already incorporated as Smaug is recruited and instead have a different passive skill take its place: Smaug's Presence *different name needed*, the area around Smaug is pressingly hot and therefore slightly damages surrounding enemy troops (very small effect radius), and the soil on which he treads catches fire for a short time (not too sure if the latter is fair in terms of balance, imagine endless Dwarven Oil Spill). This gives Smaug the ability to deal more efficiently with troops that are trying to surround him because dragons have a very slow rate of attack and are terrible at turning at the spot, due to game mechanics.

Fourth, Smaug's level 10 on ground is not Incinerate but Hypnotic Gaze/Speech. Remember Glauring fixing Túrin in place seeing his friends die, or Bilbo being enchanted by Smaug's words? I haven't yet found a perfect implementation of this in game, but my idea was to give Smaug the possibility to cripple heroes in a small/medium radius for 5/10 seconds (possibly stunning regular units too) in order for Smaug to retreat safely, to bring in hero killers like the Defiler, or simply to have an army of Goblins hindering those heroes.

The abilities per level become like this:
Lvl 1. Toggle fly / land
Lvl 2. Smaug's Presence (passive) / Fireball (turns blue at lvl 7)
Lvl 4. Hoard the Treasure (passive/active)
Lvl 7. Fearsome Roar / Wing Blast
Lvl 10. Hypnotic Speech / Incinerate

Smaug as Ring hero

The basis for Smaug as Ring hero is that he turns more greedy and he will more actively search for ways to increase his wealth and internalize it. The reason for this line of thought comes from the theory that every creature in Middle Earth is affected differently by the Ring, in a way that certain characteristics are extremified (e.g. Dwarves dig deeper in their greed and are even sturdier; Men become corrupted by its power and are poisoned by it, like Boromir in Edain and the Nazgul; Hobbits become even more stealthy). Check out this website for the full theory: http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm

Smaug's abilities would turn into the following, many of which are improved versions:

Lvl 1. Toggle fly / land
Lvl 2. Presence of a Calamity (passive) / Fireball (turns blue at lvl 7)
Lvl 4. Golden Armour (active)
Lvl 7. Fearsome Roar / Wing Blast
Lvl 10. Hypnotic Gaze / Incinerate

The first clear difference is the passive skill 'Presence of a Calamity'. This is the improved version of Smaug's Presence that adds a passive decrease in speed and damage to standard units. The Fireball ability could also be improved but I don't yet know how. It could change into the removed Fire Flight ability with the argument that with Smaug under the influence of the Ring, he could actually conjure fires in different shapes.

The second difference is the 'Golden Armour' ability that replaces the 'Hoard the Treasure' ability. This is mostly inspired by the scene at the end of "The Desolation of Smaug" and it would include some new textures for Smaug. Basically it can be interpreted in two ways: either Smaug actually starts eating gold due to his lust for it the gold melts and internalizes in his blood and scales, which coats them with a golden layer; or he melts his mounts of gold and rolls in it to create a golden armour. In-game it doesn't matter how it is interpreted as his stats will be increased: first, it increases his armour permanently; second, it increases his damage for a short while (it hurst him so much that he starts raging); third, his health instantly decreases (due to the pain of liquid gold solidifying). Also, these changes will cost you resources, obviously as he eats/melts them. This changes can be intensified in several steps that have to be 'bought' one by one:
-The first upgrade costs 500 resources and subtracts 500 hit point from the total, and it increases his armour permanently and damage temporarily by 5%, and he gets a golden helmet;
-The second costs 1000 resources and hit points, increases armour permanently and damage temporarily by 15%, he gets wing protection;
-The third costs 2000 resources and hit points, increases armour permanently and damage temporarily by 30%, he gets leg and tail protection;
-The fourth and final costs 4000 resources and hit points, increases armour permanently and damage temporarily by 50%, and his full body gets a golden armour.

The main idea was to make the player pay a lot for improving Smaug's statistics, and thus increasing the risk of dying plus the fact that less money is available to recruit other units. This can all be balanced out, of course. Regarding the visual adjustments, if the team decides that it is too much work to make four new textures, I propose that the texture body armour only remains and is simply 'reforged' by Smaug.

The last difference is with the 'Hypnotic Gaze' ability: the target radius is improved to medium/large and the duration of the cripple effect is 10/15 seconds rather than 5/10.

The other high level abilities are dependent on the increased statistics that come with the 'Golden Armour' ability, therefore improving each skill as Smaug pays with his life (and your money). The exact statistics for 'Wind Blast' and 'Incinerate' are linked to the temporary damage boost and for 'Fearsome Roar' the duration of the fear effect.

To conclude, Smaug becomes a greedy dragon that still fulfills the role of mass slayer and building destroyer, whilst also hindering heroes and debuffing enemies.
I hope you will like this extensive idea and you are free to improve on it. 


Lastly, as a direct contribution on this topic I had another small idea: the outpost for the Misty Mountains could be a large dragon cave where Smaug can be recruited along with some small drakes. When Smaug gets the Ring, the production of these other dragon types (I am unfamiliar with their use in 3.8), is allowed.

[The_Necromancer0]

Wow, this is super impressive. I've read through the whole and while the value may need balancing the overall thing is well-balanced. I support fully the idea for the outpost. Going through this step by step with my suggestions:

1. Smaug's Presence (passive)/ Presence of a Calamity (passive)
I really like this ability and you've balanced it well. However while it fits with the role of a building destroyer I'm not sure it's lore accurate. The name are very well thought out but my opinion is that that the effects don't fit him. Smaug is a brutal building destroyer that prefers to do everything on the physical plane of existence. An aura doesn't fit him (IMO)

2.his power is bound to the treasury of the player
Love it!! Great idea, provides Smaug with a unique system. Here's my suggestion: since the power of Smaug is tied to the player's treasury I think to balance it out (if required) we could make it that Smaug will lose armor but gain speed in his attempt to find a new treasure as fast as possible. If the player well to fall below 500/1000 Smaug would grow restless and look for new treasures.

3. Fire flight
I definitely think it should, in fact, be given to him when he is a ring hero.

4. Golden Armor
Interesting, I not sure what to say about this one but it is definitely something to think about.

Nice post, clear, precise and well structured. Keep up the good job.