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Autor Thema: Angmar Balance Discussion  (Gelesen 11733 mal)

Elite KryPtik

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Re: Angmar Balance Discussion
« Antwort #15 am: 14. Apr 2016, 16:43 »
Hmm, I have a few points I wanted to bring about.
Agree about Obelisk, its a bit strong, needs a slight nerf.
lso totally agree about Pikemen, they should at the very least not reflect damage back on heroes and archers, although I know that Axe and Spear Throwers would still be vulnerable, but this is better than having your entire army torn to pieces.
I don't know about mount gram, I don't think they are too strong, I mean Lorien gets that fucking Mirkwood summon at 3 PP which is quite good, Tauriel can kill heroes.
I think Rogash summon is really strong now, one of the strongest in the game, even more than 3 hunters and Gandalf. Those trolls + Rogash deal insanse amounts of knockback damage.
Dark Rangers need to be made massively more vulnerable to trample, they can stand up to cavalry far too well. They also do incredible damage with ice arrows, a few battalions can tear up several heroes fairly easily if they focus him, something that only Silverthorns have been good at thus far, and I think should only be good at.
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Odysseus

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Re: Angmar Balance Discussion
« Antwort #16 am: 14. Apr 2016, 17:33 »
Agree about the Troll Summon. Really powerful as well. Although, I didn't mention it personally because by 7 CP you should have some decent means to counter it, I think.

In addition, what makes the Carn-Dûm Pikemen passive technically problematic is that the engine or ability cannot differentiate between certain types of damage. Only between ranged and melee damage if I recall correctly what Ea told me.

If it would be changed, what kind of ability would replace it? I wonder hmm...
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Re: Angmar Balance Discussion
« Antwort #17 am: 14. Apr 2016, 18:49 »
For an ability suggestion for Pikes, I would like to see something to synergize with Angmar as a whole, so something related to their status as the elite of Angmar, or something related to ice. I don't have any great ideas right now.
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

Hamanathnath

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Re: Angmar Balance Discussion
« Antwort #18 am: 14. Apr 2016, 19:17 »
I've been reading both the Mordor and Angmar balance threads, just would like to give some thoughts.

Carn Dum Bowmen need to take more trample damage.  They take barely any un upgraded, and are the only Elite Archer in the game, besides Spearthrowers, that are able to get Heavy Armour.   It also is one of the reasons why Mordor has a thought time against Angmar, but I'll go into detail in the Mordor Balance thread.

Carn Dum Pikemen's ability is very strong indeed.  I don't think they should replace it, but I would suggest that make it only reflect damage from melee attacks, so you can kill them with archers without taking damage.

I will also agree that the Troll Summon might be a bit too strong.  I suggest that instead of 3 Hill Trolls and Rogash, make it 2 Trolls and Rogash, but make Rogash as strong as he was in 4.3.

And I also agree that the Dark Obleisk is strong, but the problem I have with it is that it comes back really quickly, so the battlefield will be littered with them.  Maybe a 20% increase on the cooldown would be nice.

Greetings, Hamanathnath


 

Adrigabbro

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Re: Angmar Balance Discussion
« Antwort #19 am: 18. Apr 2016, 10:31 »
I suggest a new topic: werewolves.  :) Any thoughts about them?
I have encountered them for the first time yesterday (I played against once and I used them once) and they are surprisingly very very (very) strong. They deal outrageous damage to single units (heroes, monsters, siege weapons), decent damage to buildings, are extremely fast and effective against cavalry and swordsmen but weak against pikes and archers. For instance, a midlife werewolf of mine successfully traded kills with a full life Haldir while Lorien archers were shooting at him. I am not too sure about their role, but perhaps it could be adjusted because I felt like they were hero killers, mass slayers and building destroyers at once.  :D


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Odysseus

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Re: Angmar Balance Discussion
« Antwort #20 am: 18. Apr 2016, 12:43 »
They were even stronger in the beta, when they still costed 1800 haha. The same principle kind of applies for Gorthaur's Werewolves who cost 2000 a piece.

The problem with Werewolves for me personally is their ridiculous speed and their tankiness paired with that speed. Their strength is also still quite high. I would like the Werewolves to be similar to the troll, but less for siege and more for infantry and cavalry.
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Draco100000

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Re: Angmar Balance Discussion
« Antwort #21 am: 18. Apr 2016, 13:07 »
I think they are the unique early to midgame decent thig that angmar has. I think they are very easily killed by pikemen. Thats make them useless vs towerguards, palace guards, Ironhills phalanxes, uruk pikemen.... I think they are like super powerfull caval but with very high cost. I dont think they should be changed.

Odysseus

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Re: Angmar Balance Discussion
« Antwort #22 am: 18. Apr 2016, 13:55 »
Werewolves at early game? Spiked Collar (400) + wolf breeding (400) + 900= 1700

Do you think Werewolves are early game at 1700? I would say it is already mid game by then. Perhaps the view of early and mid game is different for a faction such as Angmar, which get huge resource and level boosts with their cart system.
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Draco100000

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Re: Angmar Balance Discussion
« Antwort #23 am: 18. Apr 2016, 14:01 »
Werewolves at early game? Spiked Collar (400) + wolf breeding (400) + 900= 1700

Do you think Werewolves are early game at 1700? I would say it is already mid game by then. Perhaps the view of early and mid game is different for a faction such as Angmar, which get huge resource and level boosts with their cart system.
Well actually you can get them earlier if you make an armie based on wolves.

Hamanathnath

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Re: Angmar Balance Discussion
« Antwort #24 am: 18. Apr 2016, 15:26 »
I think Werewolves are in a good spot right now.  They are better against some factions more then others because of their weakness to pikes, but they have some use against all factions, assuming you go for them.  I prefer going for Men of Carn Dum and Wights, and if needed, go for Werewolves against factions with weaker pikes.

I still think that going for Mills is more of a risk then going for Smelters, but I guess going for a Wolf start would make Mills more useful.

Odysseus

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Re: Angmar Balance Discussion
« Antwort #25 am: 18. Apr 2016, 15:58 »
@Draco

Yeah you are right. Although it is quite risky to do so. You would have to fully dedicate your army to Wolf spam. Werewolves are indeed weak to pikes and also take more damage from turrets than trolls if I am not mistaken. Yet they can self-heal with their ability, which is quite nasty. It is quite interesting that wolves are strong against pikes, and Werewolves are basically strong against everything else. Not sure if I stil like this mechanic, where Trolls and Werewolves can solo heroes, which cost more than those units.

Nonetheless, I don't think Werewolves are OP right now, they serve as very powerful shock troops/units, but have an obvious weakness and they tend to just run off into a wall of pikes and die, if you forget to ''S" them.
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Re: Angmar Balance Discussion
« Antwort #26 am: 19. Apr 2016, 13:48 »
While watching a game yesterday, I noticed that Angmar has a lot of trouble killing Ents.  Carn Dum Bowmen, even with Freezing Arrows, don't seem to do much damage to them, especially when Treebeard is around the Ents.  In the game I was watching, once the Lothlorien player started to really spam Ents, it didn't seem like Angmar could do anything.

I'm pretty sure that the match is being posted on YouTube later, and if that's the case, I'll be sure to post it here. 

The Angmar player didn't use all the units he could have, his army was mainly made up of Carn Dum units, so maybe units like Werewolves would have solved this problem.  Just bringing it up here to see if anyone else has trouble killing Ents as Angmar.

Greetings, Hamanathnath

Odysseus

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Re: Angmar Balance Discussion
« Antwort #27 am: 19. Apr 2016, 14:15 »
I do wonder, yes. To me, spamming Carn-Dum Pikemen with the reflect ability is pretty much a guaranteed win. The average mass slayer will take himself/herself down to half health dealing with this frustrating ability from only a single squad. I am pretty sure that if Ents charge into them, they will just get wrecked, like anything else.

I will keep saying it: the ability is broken and needs to be fixed. It needs to be nerfed to about 10-15% or simply removed and replaced with an alternative, because it is broken design. It damages and kills things it is not even supposed to damage, like the archer sentries in Lothlorien's Base Buildings that cannot be attacked by default, units inside towers, buildings, and the list goes on.
« Letzte Änderung: 19. Apr 2016, 14:40 von Odysseus »
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Hamanathnath

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Re: Angmar Balance Discussion
« Antwort #28 am: 19. Apr 2016, 14:24 »
Well yes, charging Ents into pikes is generally a bad idea  :P

Most of the Ents in the game I watched were in rock throw mode.  Hopefully it will be up on YouTube later so you can see what I mean.

And yes, that ability is quite broken right now.  It really turns the tide of battles.  I think that it should be replaced with something more reasonable.

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Re: Angmar Balance Discussion
« Antwort #29 am: 19. Apr 2016, 15:29 »
I definitely agree with you on that. :)


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