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Lore Corner - Questions and Debates

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Walküre:
Yes, Gandalf does visit Dol Guldur in 2850 T.A., where he had confirmation that Sauron was indeed returned and where he was given the key of the Lonely Mountain. But Gandalf had already visited that ruined fortress, as I wrote; it was in 2063 T.A. Sauron had started gathering shadows in Mirkwood since 1000 T.A. (as I recall) and Gandalf had been sent there for an inquiry about such suspicious unrest along those lands. Sauron didn't have the power to confront the Istar though, and so he fled to the East to avoid having his true identity unveiled.

Chrishedges:
Ahh thank you for clarifying:), certainly can't beat a good discussion on lotr  xD

Walküre:
You're welcome  :)

It's then consequential that the information provided by AUJ is flawed and incorrect, even if that choice was legitimately due to adaptation needs. Elrond speaking about the period of watchful peace they had been living until that moment (the arrival of Thorin in the film) thus contradicts the lore. As I wrote, though, the generalities of the Hobbit trilogy's plot are well acceptable in those particular circumstances.

OakenShield224:
I feel like I've just realised something about the LOTR books/films.

Sauron lost the ring when Isildur cut his finger off. Isildur claimed the ring. He later died and fell into water where his body was never found.
Frodo lost the ring when Gollum bit his finger off. Gollum claimed the ring. He later died and fell into fire where his body was destroyed.
In both cases, the original owner had their finger severed while the new owner died in someway due to the ring (Gollum was too busy celebrating that he had it, while the Ring left Isildur allowing him to be shot).

Another connection was that Isildur went into the river (water) in his death and was never seen again. Boromir's funeral involved him being cast into the river on a boat and he was never seen again (except in a dream by Faramir). Frodo and Bilbo left the lands of Mortals by crossing the sea (water) and were never seen by mortals again. Galadriel (the elf who desired the ring the most) is known for having Nenya, the Ring of Water.

What do you think about the existence of these links between the ring bearers and those who desired the ring?

Walküre:
What to say, Tolkien's writings are the realm of references and linkages of the most diverse nature! Think about how Galadriel ends up mirroring the grand deeds of Lúthien in the First Age, destroying and cleansing what had thitherto been a stronghold in Sauron's government. Or the numerous connections of Elrond's legendary ancestry: with the union of Arwen and Aragorn, the bloodline of the Two Twins is finally reunited (Elrond's kin and the one of Elros, from whom the lore of the Five-pointed Island had beginning). Set aside what could seem to be a sort of incest, albeit the two lines of descent being divided by millennia and by many events which had in the meantime befallen, it's really a very intricate of a scheme to conceive. Fact reinforced by Arwen and Aragorn treading the exact same path of Beren and Lúthien: the love between the immortal and mortal races. Beside that, one would find a plethora of other similar cases. You need only dig and delve into the broad lore...

Natural Elements, from their part, are ever-pivotal themes to portray. This happens in most fantasy and mythical tales of the old literature, from which Tolkien has taken inspiration. Water, in particular, serves different purposes: it is seldom tied to the Evil or to its devices (as Galadriel would say), whereas it is often related to purity and cleanliness. Under a more neutral perspective, water has simply a central part in any happening of Middle-earth. Rivers are given prominence in the narration and the sea made the fortunes of realms as Gondor or the empire of Númenor itself. The sundering seas divide also continental lands (domain of sad death for mortals and grief) from the shires in which naught decays and all ever-green stays. Sea itself was of fundamental interest in the Elder Times and in the Second Age as well; in the former was symbol of nostalgia for the West and grievous exile, and in the latter oceans became the medium via which Númenor could propagate its might.

The smartest reference to elements I have in mind is the ultimate fate of the Three Jewels. One fell in the fires of the earth (Earth), the other was thrown in the broad sea (Water) and the last found in the Mariner the noblest keeper, voyaging eternally throughout the infinite vastness of Arda's skies (Air) and enlightening the halls of Eä as a star of hope.

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