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The Hobbit Trilogy

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Fredius:
Don't know about you guys but I think the Hobbit is far superior with it's orcs than LOTR. Instead of "just" killing machines they are actually killing machines with a culture. They speak their own language (even speaking at all is very rare for an orc in LOTR xD) and they have their own goals and hierarchical structure. I really loved that in the trilogy.

Walküre:
I agree, at a certain extent.

The usage of Black Speech was indeed a step forward in the representation of the Orcs; nothing to say about it.
Just, one could also say that the same Orcs are better represented in LOTR, graphically speaking, being also much more frightening in their very appearance.
For example, I was a bit shocked, as a child, when I had seen for the first time the Goblins of Moria in FOTR, as if they were a seriously dreadful threat  [ugly]
Nevertheless, PJ was totally right in implementing their true language.

If you want, you could also start a debate in the LOTR thread about the general representation and display of Orcs on the big screen.
We could start a war between these two threads, the Hobbit and LOTR  :D

Besides, I really want you active there as well, we need you  :P

#WeNeedFredius  8-)

Melkor Bauglir:
Objection to this statement! xD
I agree that there are new orcish aspects in the Hobbit movies that weren't in the LotR-trilogy. However first of all: Do orcs even need this? My point is that orcs are the evil forces' henchmen and they make great side-villains, but from a storytelling aspect, they are incredible dull as primary antagonists -the thing is they are little more than tools for Sauron and others, I would argue they were never meant to play a real villain role and simply not able to fullfill this role. So: Yes, you are right. But I don't see the appeal of orc based primary-villains, therefore it isn't a necessary advance in my opinion. ;)
And yeah (let the hate flow through me^^): I found this black speech annoying as hell! First of all, I'd like to understand what characters are saying. Second of all, untill Azog started speaking black speechish only Sauron ever used it and it was massively cooler that way. Thirdly the Black Speech isn't really the global language of evil things, it's something Sauron developt, but the orcs never used this as a primary language, especially not the Misty Mountain orcs, as far as I know. And lastly, being the most glaring problem, I don't see how this Black Speech added anything to the movie or Azogs character. He just kind of does it and it isn't an improvement for the audiance. So why do it in the first place if it makes himself constantly incomprehensible.

Greetings
Melkor Bauglir

PS: And about the graphical implementation: I can hardly agree more with DieWalküre.

RiderOfRohan:

--- Zitat von: Melkor Bauglir am 29. Jan 2016, 23:33 ---Objection to this statement! xD
I agree that there are new orcish aspects in the Hobbit movies that weren't in the LotR-trilogy. However first of all: Do orcs even need this? My point is that orcs are the evil forces' henchmen and they make great side-villains, but from a storytelling aspect, they are incredible dull as primary antagonists -the thing is they are little more than tools for Sauron and others, I would argue they were never meant to play a real villain role and simply not able to fullfill this role. So: Yes, you are right. But I don't see the appeal of orc based primary-villains, therefore it isn't a necessary advance in my opinion. ;)
And yeah (let the hate flow through me^^): I found this black speech annoying as hell! First of all, I'd like to understand what characters are saying. Second of all, untill Azog started speaking black speechish only Sauron ever used it and it was massively cooler that way. Thirdly the Black Speech isn't really the global language of evil things, it's something Sauron developt, but the orcs never used this as a primary language, especially not the Misty Mountain orcs, as far as I know. And lastly, being the most glaring problem, I don't see how this Black Speech added anything to the movie or Azogs character. He just kind of does it and it isn't an improvement for the audiance. So why do it in the first place if it makes himself constantly incomprehensible.

Greetings
Melkor Bauglir

PS: And about the graphical implementation: I can hardly agree more with DieWalküre.

--- Ende Zitat ---

Sauron created the Black Speech to be the unifying language of all the servants of Mordor, Many Orkish dialects had adopted words from the Black Speech so it would make sense to me to have it even for the broken orc tribes in the north.
Pure Black Speech was spoken by Sauron, the Olog-hai, and the Nazgul, so it would make sense that Azog, a high ranking orc leader would be speaking it, especially since in the movie he was seen speaking to the necromancer.

ThorinsNemesis:

--- Zitat von: Fredius am 29. Jan 2016, 22:51 ---Don't know about you guys but I think the Hobbit is far superior with it's orcs than LOTR. Instead of "just" killing machines they are actually killing machines with a culture. They speak their own language (even speaking at all is very rare for an orc in LOTR xD) and they have their own goals and hierarchical structure. I really loved that in the trilogy.

--- Ende Zitat ---
I absolutely and completely agree with you. Especially the inclusion of Black Speech for the orcs was a very interesting addition; and the Orcs' culture, especially the culture and outside architecture of Gundabad imo were really impressive.
While in LOTR the Goblins and Orcs were also cool, they spoke English instead, and weren't so 'developed'  as they are in the Hobbit; and, in my opinion the designs and armors of the orcs in the Hobbit movies was much more cool and impressive, I actually found the Orcs in the Hobbit a bit more scary/imposing than the ones in LOTR. :)

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