[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Gondor Suggestions
The ultimate spell for Arnor(Gondor+Elves army from epilogue mission)
Tienety:
--- Zitat von: TiberiusOgden am 23. Jul 2015, 18:20 ---I have only one and crucial problem - Glorfindel, because according to lore, he is only one elf who really fits there and you want for him only spellbook role. Hard to say - honestly I don't know how to implement him better. :D
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But Imladris is more suitable faction for Glorfindel. Many other heroes are fit to the more factions. For example, Gandalf is fit for all the good factions. But he is only as standard hero in Gondor/Arnor faction. :D
There are two problems with Glorfindel in Arnor:
1) He is the same abilities as in Imladris
2) Arnor already has a Arvedui with tank role
If I know Glorfindel came together with Eärnur to the help Arnor in book and campaign. I think that Eärnur and Glorfindel should be together in spellbook. 8-)
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Battle_of_Fornost
In addition, Glorfindel will still have a important role Arnor, but in spellbook. He can rescue the Arnor before defeat together with Elrond and Eärnur as in a book or campaign. ;)
CragLord:
--- Zitat von: Tienety am 23. Jul 2015, 11:44 ---Maybe this sentence from Eärnur's speech:
"Together, Man and Elven will bring an end to the reign of the Iron Crown!"
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Yes, that is nice! That unknown horn's sound can stay in background, but this sentence should be added like main sound.(To be louder than horn.) Think that combination would be great.
--- Zitat von: Tienety am 23. Jul 2015, 11:44 ---I'm glad that you like this idea. ;)
I agree, Arnor needs a lot of changes and solve some problems as hero killer for Arnor.
Yes, Glorfindel is perfect fit for this ultimate spell. But unfortunately he is a standard hero in Arnor and probably will have same abilities in Imladris. I think that Arnor didn't need Glorfindel as standard hero, Arnor have their own hero with tank role. I think it would be better if hobbits and Lindon will have greater role in this faction.
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Agree, my suggestion is also to remove complete Imladris's units (Except in ultimate spell. Help from Rivendel in form of that combine spell should be enough to cover Lore aspects.) Glorfindel is tank more than Hero killer, he should be removed. (As you said Arnor have already tank (Arvendui)) New hero should be added for killer role.I have some suggestion about that role slot.
Looking from Lore aspect team is decided to make models of characters from end of King of Arnor dynasty, (Araphant-Arvendui-Aranarth(He isn't king at all, later will sugest something about him.)) and that is nice (Different characters for different roles.).So following that rule, I found that Araphant father Araval (or Arvallen) is fitting nice that slot we need. First I choose him because he is closest member in dynasty with characters who already are in game, and beside that (From Lore) he had some nice character's attributes. Was known like "Powerfull king" or "Golden King", he was strong like warrior and like diplomat. (We could concentrate on warrior's aspect.) During his reign (1813-1891 T.A) Arnor was of course in War against Angmar, but had important victory with Elves of Lindon and Rivendell against Angmar, I think it was last victory of Old Kingdom against Angmar. Also he was wise, and he tried to recolonize region of Cardolan, (In this time this region, like most of Eriador was devastated by plage) but failed because of Wraiths who inhabited Barrow-downs.
This hero in my opinion should have Aragorn's model with some Arnor's changes of course. Suggestion about his look: http://postimg.org/image/twvaks7mr/
Tall man of strong body build, true member of the House of Isildur.
With difference of cape, he was "Mighty King", he deserves cape. :) I think that look from picture with cape is perfect. This model will be very similar to Eärnur's, with exception of skin ofc. About his abilities and detailed look (Armor, sword, shield), I have some roughly thoughts, so if you find this interesting, I ask for your help. xD
Agree also about Lindon and hobbits mini-factions. :)
--- Zitat von: Tienety am 23. Jul 2015, 11:44 ---1) New ultimate spell: Rescue of the Arnor
Elrond, Glorfindel and Eärnur lead armies of people and elves into battle against the enemies of Arnor.
This spell summons:
-Elrond(with his Last Aliance armor)
-Glorfindel
-Eärnur
-Four battalions of Gondor Knights.
-Two battalions of riders from Imladris with heavy golden armor.
If I know, the main part of Gondor troops in this battle was cavalry. In addition, this is the perfect equivalent for Rohan spell in Gondor spellbook.
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First of all, think that picture is perfect for Power's image in palantir.
Good idea about cavalry (to be equal to "Rohan answers"), but in my opinion that should stay similar to power ''Gondor Army'' with integration of elven units. Power "Gondor Army (or "Army of Gondor", can't remember now. :P )" have nine battalions: 3 Gondor Knights battalions, 2 Gondor Swordsman, 1 Tower Guards, 3 Gondor Archers. My preposition is that 3 Gondor Knights battalions stay, 3 battalions of Gondor Archers to replace with some elven archers (Imladris's Noldors with nice armour), in place of Tower Guards to add one more battalion of Gondor Knights or some better swordsman, and instead of 2 battalions of Gondor Swordsmen to add 2 battalions of Mithlond Sentries.(Really find that swordsman useless)
Second idea is next:
http://postimg.org/image/3sikpeieb/
Maybe it looks complicated, but I think this way Lore's aspects are completely satisfied. :) (Because combined forces of Lothlórien, Rivendell and Gray Heavens helped Arnor. Lothlórien units would be too much. :P )
If all of this make things too complicated (but I think not) from aspect of comparison with Gondor faction, then we should use your suggestion about only cavalry.
--- Zitat von: Tienety am 23. Jul 2015, 11:44 ---2) New building for Outpost: Lindon fortress:
Arnor can have Lindon fortress on Outpost. Lindon was much stronger at the time of the Fall of Arnor. Also it will be difference in integration Lindon mini-faction in Imladris(settlement) and Arnor(Outpost). Maybe Lindon fortress could have design of old Rivendell fortress with same changes.
This building will be available:
-Cirdan:
He has the same abilities except ability which improves Lindon buildings, now this ability is not necessary.
Maybe Cirdan can have mount ability. So, He can ride into battle with Mithlond riders.
-Mithlond Sentries(old units from vanilla) with spears and shields Mithlond Sentries will have the same function as Tower Guards in Gondor
-Mithlond riders with swords and shields. Mithlond riders will have the same function as Dol Armoth riders in Gondor. You can have only three these units.
Both units can have this design but with different weapons:
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As I said earlier, I am for removing that Imladris fortress, and with it, removing Glorfindel and Wind Riders. (I am aware of his role during second and third age, he helped in Battle of Fornost (From Lore that is his main link with Northen Kingdom, he leaded Elvish forces of Rivendell, Gray Heavens and Lothlórien against Angmar in the Battle of Fornost), so his implemention in "Help power" is enough from Lore aspects in my opinion. Also he should stay one of main heroes for Imladris, not for Arnor.
Agree, Lindon fortress should be at Outpost, and Rivendell's at settlement. My suggestion is to use current model of Lindon's Spire in both cases.
For Rivendel could be used model of Spire lvl 1,2 or 3 (Think that lvl 2 is most fitting.) because it can be builded on settlement, and for Arnor Sprire lvl 4 of course.
I would also like to see Mithlond Sentries, (As you said Arnor needs some Tower Guards comparison, because this comparison miss, like there is comparison DolAmroth swordsman and Guardians of Arnor) and about that DolAmroth Knights comparison, I would like to see Mithlond riders with spears more then with swords. (Because of difference between them and Wind Riders and I found Spear/Pike weapon of Lindon's eleves. xD Because of vanila probably :D) Anyway, usage of current Lindon elven model into integration of this riders could pass, ;) and their usage into Mithlond Sentries's model is very fitting. These Lindon elven units of course:
In this case Círdan don't need that upgrade ability. And using of Palanír of Elostirion should be able only if Círdan is produced or somehow should stay requirement for Círdran's level 10. (This will complicate things, but it's justified from Lore aspects of that stone. From Lore is known that only Elendil could use that stone, it's needed great mental potential of person who wants to look into any of stones.) About mount, it is irrelevant in my opinion, because Círdan stays unit supporter.
--- Zitat von: Tienety am 23. Jul 2015, 11:44 ---3) New building for settlement: hobbit farm
This is economic building and also you can recruit here two hobbit units:
Hobbit militia:
Hobbit archers:
I think that the hobbits should have a greater role in Arnor. Gandalf can lead hobbits to battle. They don't needs own hobbit hero. Old design of hobbit's hero can be use as banner carriers for hobbit units.
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I am for this implementation with few exceptions. I also found hobbit role important in Arnor history. During reign of king Argeleb II (1589-1670 T.A.) Shire was granted to hobbits, before that it was hunting grounds for Arnor's noble society. So Shire survived about 500 years of war between Arnor and Angmar, so it needs to have part into units production and warfare. :)
Nice model of Hobbit farm, like it. I am for implementation of that economic structure and that units but I am not for removing hobbit unit reinforcement power. (I will explain this on last part of mine comment.) In my opinion Hobbit archers should stay part of this power and their slot on hobbit farm should take hobbit donkey riders from 3.8.1. Why this? In this suggestion Arnor will probably have 3-4 different types of archers, so hobbit archers free production from farm is simply too much.(And I find donkey riders very interesting in game. :D) This way hobbit archers stay unique, and hobbit ridders are not so strong units, they don't have knock back ability, their main purpose is fast movement over map and killing weaker units.(They are simply interesting like unit in my opinion. :) ) If donkey riders are too much (Useless cavalry), then hobbit farm should produce only militia. Also that hero "Tuk" should stay and his model and palantir and voice, should be improved. He should stay because of nice background story.(Leader of Hobbits in battle with Goblins, and that Golf stuff is epic! :P )
--- Zitat von: Tienety am 23. Jul 2015, 11:44 ---4) Galdor as new scout and new roles for Aranarth and Carthaen.
Galdor is Cirdan's ambassador. He was present in the Council of Elrond representing Círdan. Maybe he had some role at the time of the fall of Arnor.
Carthaen can get better abilities and values. He can have the same role as Faramir in Gondor. He will be available in Rangers camp.
Aranarth can be new hero killer for Arnor. He can return to Arnor fortress(princ form).
If hobbit will have a greater role in Arnor, a hobbit spell is not necessary.
Arnor can gets a new spell for spellbook:
Chieftain of the Dúnedain:
Aranarth becomes the Chieftain of the Dúnedain.
This spell unlocks rangers form for Aranarth.
What do you think about this ideas? :P
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At this point, we have most disagreement. That starts with Aranarth, that man was First of Chieftains of the Dúnedain! He was not armored prince. (He could be, but very short period of time) At first place, with his people he fled to Lindon when Northern Kingdom was destroyed, and when his father had ship accident and died/missed, by right, this made Aranarth now King of Arnor, but since kingdom was lost he could not claim the title. Instead that we have birth of Dúnedain ranger order, and he became first of of the Chieftains of the Dúnedain. He also was chieftain for longer than any would be after him, ruling for 131 years. Point is from lore aspects, that Aranarth should stay Faramir's comparison on Ranger's camp. His second role (Prince of Arnor) should be removed. That "Heir" model should be used for King Araphant model.(I found that current model of king Araphant is very weird and inappropriate. Strictly speaking, current model for this hero in my opinion simply don't fit with rest of the royal models.)
About scout hero, thing is simple, I won't add any new hero except King Araval/Arvallen. Galdor is not option in suggestion like this one. I would keep Carthaen for this role because two reasons:
1) He was a character created in the Electronic Arts video game The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II: The Rise of the Witch-king. There is no Lore information about him or his existence.
2) In time of this part of Arnor's dynasty (Araval /Arvallen-Araphant-Arvendui-Aranarth) Carthaen was already destroyed. Destroyed by plage and by magic of Witch King. So role of this region of Arnor should stay minimal (I could say that Shire had smaller losses during plage) and in that way this scout role for this fictional character is enough. (In other words, he don't deserve any other role!)
Some skill change is ok for him, to buff him, after all he isn't some hobbit. :)
This concludes next: There is no need for that Hobbit aid power change, and there will probably stay that two options for Dúnedain Rangers upgrade (So there will be three different Rangers units and one basic Archer unit = 4 different kind of archer battalions, and that means hobbit archers like permanent production unit is too much, so hobbit archers should stay like aid in form of power. :) )
Sum:
Glorfindel moves to palantir power.
Cirdan stay with minimal difference. (Stays in support role.)
Araval /Arvallen (New hero for killer role,described above.)
Araphant gains new look. (Model of Aranarth "Heir" model, stays in support role)
Arvedui stays with same model. (Stays in tank role.)
(Some proposal for new elite units when he wears ring would be nice for future. ;) )
Aranarth became first of of the Chieftains of the Dúnedain and that is his role, disabel that "Heir" choice. (Lore!)
Carthaen stays scout. (From my point of view he can't replace Aranarth in ranger camp ever! )
That is my suggestion and I tried to give objective answer to your post. :)
I will try to make some good topics in future about Arnor and changes I think Arnor deserves like Mighty Northern Kingdom and home of The House of Isildur.
I am starting with this one: http://en.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,31402.0.html
Tienety:
There is one problem, Aranarth was born long time ago after Araval death. So, they can't be together in the one faction. This is the same as for example Gimli and Bard in one faction. 8-|
--- Zitat von: CragLord am 23. Jul 2015, 21:07 ---Good idea about cavalry (to be equal to "Rohan answers"), but in my opinion that should stay similar to power ''Gondor Army'' with integration of elven units. Power "Gondor Army (or "Army of Gondor", can't remember now. :P )" have nine battalions: 3 Gondor Knights battalions, 2 Gondor Swordsman, 1 Tower Guards, 3 Gondor Archers. My preposition is that 3 Gondor Knights battalions stay, 3 battalions of Gondor Archers to replace with some elven archers (Imladris's Noldors with nice armour), in place of Tower Guards to add one more battalion of Gondor Knights or some better swordsman, and instead of 2 battalions of Gondor Swordsmen to add 2 battalions of Mithlond Sentries.(Really find that swordsman useless)
Second idea is next:
http://postimg.org/image/3sikpeieb/
Maybe it looks complicated, but I think this way Lore's aspects are completely satisfied. :) (Because combined forces of Lothlórien, Rivendell and Gray Heavens helped Arnor. Lothlórien units would be too much. :P )
If all of this make things too complicated (but I think not) from aspect of comparison with Gondor faction, then we should use your suggestion about only cavalry.
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But Gondor Army spell now summon 9 units and one hero. I think that spell with 9 units and 3 heroes is too much for one spell. :o
In Addition, Rohan answers summons 6 battalion of rohirrim riders and 4 heroes(Merry, Eowyn, Eomer, and Theoden).
I think it is not necessary to add Lindon units to this spell. They are already integrated to Outpost.
This is my intention for Arnor:
Hobbit and Lindon as mini-faction only for Settlement and Outpost
Imladris and Gondon as mini-faction only for spellbook
--- Zitat von: CragLord am 23. Jul 2015, 21:07 ---Agree, Lindon fortress should be at Outpost, and Rivendell's at settlement. My suggestion is to use current model of Lindon's Spire in both cases.
For Rivendel could be used model of Spire lvl 1,2 or 3 (Think that lvl 2 is most fitting.) because it can be builded on settlement, and for Arnor Sprire lvl 4 of course.
I would also like to see Mithlond Sentries, (As you said Arnor needs some Tower Guards comparison, because this comparison miss, like there is comparison DolAmroth swordsman and Guardians of Arnor) and about that DolAmroth Knights comparison, I would like to see Mithlond riders with spears more then with swords. (Because of difference between them and Wind Riders and I found Spear/Pike weapon of Lindon's eleves. xD Because of vanila probably :D) Anyway, usage of current Lindon elven model into integration of this riders could pass, ;) and their usage into Mithlond Sentries's model is very fitting. These Lindon elven units of course:
In this case Círdan don't need that upgrade ability. And using of Palanír of Elostirion should be able only if Círdan is produced or somehow should stay requirement for Círdran's level 10. (This will complicate things, but it's justified from Lore aspects of that stone. From Lore is known that only Elendil could use that stone, it's needed great mental potential of person who wants to look into any of stones.) About mount, it is irrelevant in my opinion, because Círdan stays unit supporter.
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I think that the current Cirdan's ability for Lindon Spire should to stay in Imladris.
But Maybe only Lindon Spire level 1-3 for Imladris and level 4 for Arnor's Outpost.
You're right, the spear is better for Mithlond riders. ;)
About Cirdan, yes maybe mount is not suitable for them.
Also, I noticed that he has ability "Journey to the West". I think that this isn't fit at the time of the fall of Arnor. This ability is more suitable in Imladris at the time of Lord of the Ring.
I have some ideas for Cirdan abilities in Arnor(he will be more offensive):
Level 1: Ring Narya (same as now)
Level 3: Quickly help for Arnor
Cirdan with his army rush to help Arnor. For 30 seconds Cirdan and Lindon units deals +25% movement speed.
Level 5: Healing Aura (same as now)
Level 7: Guardians of Lindon
Cirdan summon temporarily battalion of his best warriors. So, they will not be removed from Arnor.
Level 10: foresight (same as now).
--- Zitat von: CragLord am 23. Jul 2015, 21:07 ---I am for this implementation with few exceptions. I also found hobbit role important in Arnor history. During reign of king Argeleb II (1589-1670 T.A.) Shire was granted to hobbits, before that it was hunting grounds for Arnor's noble society. So Shire survived about 500 years of war between Arnor and Angmar, so it needs to have part into units production and warfare. :)
Nice model of Hobbit farm, like it. I am for implementation of that economic structure and that units but I am not for removing hobbit unit reinforcement power. (I will explain this on last part of mine comment.) In my opinion Hobbit archers should stay part of this power and their slot on hobbit farm should take hobbit donkey riders from 3.8.1. Why this? In this suggestion Arnor will probably have 3-4 different types of archers, so hobbit archers free production from farm is simply too much. This way hobbit archers stay unique, and hobbit ridders are not so strong units, they don't have knock back ability, their main purpose is fast movement over map and killing weaker units. If donkey riders are too much (Useless cavalry), then hobbit farm should produce only militia. Also that hero "Tuk" should stay and his model and palantir and voice, should be improved. He should stay because of nice background story in my opinion(Leader of Hobbits in battle with Goblins, and that Golf stuff is epic! :P )
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If I know, Arnor has only three archer units in 4.1:
1) Arnor archers
2) Arnor rangers(two additional forms are just improvements for this unit)
3) Guardians of Lindon(this unit will be only temporarily in my concept)
Maybe they can have the passive spell in spellbook:
Support of hobbits :
Hobbits go to thhe battle against the enemies of Arnor. Now you can recruit Hobbit archers in hobbit farms and you can recruit Hobbit militia +25% faster.
In addition, Hobbit archers had an important role in the Battle of Fornost, I think they should be permanently in hobbit farm.
Maybe this hobbit hero "Tuk" can be new scout for Arnor and maybe he can summon this hobbit donkey riders. They are fit for the role. 8-)
--- Zitat von: CragLord am 23. Jul 2015, 21:07 ---At this point, we have most disagreement. That starts with Aranarth, that man was First of Chieftains of the Dúnedain! He was not armored prince. (He could be, but very short period of time) At first place, with his people he fled to Lindon when Northern Kingdom was destroyed, and when his father had ship accident and died/missed, by right, this made Aranarth now King of Arnor, but since kingdom was lost he could not claim the title. Instead that we have birth of Dúnedain ranger order, and he became first of of the Chieftains of the Dúnedain. He also was chieftain for longer than any would be after him, ruling for 131 years. Point is from lore aspects, that Aranarth should stay Faramir's comparison on Ranger's camp. His second role (Prince of Arnor) should be removed. That "Heir" model should be used for King Araphant model.(I found that current model of king Araphant is very weird and inappropriate.)
About scout hero, thing is simple, I won't add any new hero except King Araval or Arvallen. Galdor is not option in suggestion like this one. I would keep Carthaen for this role because two reasons:
1) He was a character created in the Electronic Arts video game The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II: The Rise of the Witch-king. There is no Lore information about him or his existence.
2) In time of this part of Arnor's dynasty (Araval /Arvallen-Araphant-Arvendui-Aranarth) Carthaen was already destroyed. Destroyed by plage and by magic of Witch King. So role of this region of Arnor should stay minimal (I could say that Shire had smaller losses during plage) and in that way this scout role for this fictional character is enough. (In other words, he don't deserve any other role!)
Some skill change is ok for him, to buff him, after all he isn't some hobbit. :)
This concludes next: There is no need for that Hobbit aid power change, and there will probably stay that two options for Dúnedain Rangers upgrade (So there will be three different Rangers units and one basic Archer unit = 4 different kind of archer battalions :) )
Sum:
Glorfindel moves to palantir power.
Cirdan stay with minimal difference. (Stays in support role.)
Araval /Arvallen (New hero for killer role,described above.)
Araphant gains new look. (Model of Aranarth "Heir" model, stays in support role)
Arvedui stays with same model. (Stays in tank role.)
(Some proposal for new elite units when he wears ring would be nice for future. ;) )
Aranarth became first of of the Chieftains of the Dúnedain and that is his role, disabel that "Heir" choice. (Lore!)
Carthaen stays scout. (From my point of view he can't replace Aranarth in ranger camp ever! )
That is my suggestion and some objective answer to your post. :)
I will try to make some good topics in future about Arnor and changes I think Arnor deserves like Mighty Northern Kingdom and home of The House of Isildur.
I am starting with this one: http://en.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,31402.0.html
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Aranarth was Chieftains of the Dúnedain but after the destruction of Arnor kingdom. So, Prince form of Aranarth is fit for Arnor faction.
He should start as a prince but later to become Chieftains of the Dúnedain.
Similarly to Aragorn which start as Chieftains of the Dúnedain and later to become King of Gondor. I think that Aragorn and Aranarth can have same role - hero killer.
If Carthaen is dead, he should not be in Arnor as scout. I do not know, maybe Edain team used his character from game but they ignored his role no-canon role and death in the campaign.
Maybe Arnor does not need this no-canon character and Aranarth can have two roles in Arnor:
Aranarth(prince form): hero killer as Aragorn in Gondor
Aranarth(Chieftains of the Dúnedain form): units support as Faramir in Gondor
He can be available in Arnor fortress(only prince form) and you can use his Chieftains of the Dúnedain form only if you build Rangers camp.
So, Gondor/Arnor will have these roles for heroes:
Pippin/hobbit hero or Carthaen - Scout hero
Denethor/Malbeth - Hero and unit supporter
Beregond/Araphant - Building supporter
Boromir/Arvedui - Tank
Aragorn/Aranarth(prince form) - Hero killer
Gandalf/Gandalf - Mass slayer
Faramir/Aranarth(Chieftains of the Dúnedain form) - Unit supporter
Imrahil/Cirdan - Unit supporter
What do you think about this ideas? xD
CragLord:
--- Zitat von: Tienety am 24. Jul 2015, 12:56 ---There is one problem, Aranarth was born long time ago after Araval death. So, they can't be together in the one faction. This is the same as for example Gimli and Bard in one faction. 8-|
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You have right, there is gap of 47 years bettween Araval's death and birth of Aranarth, so this is problem with Araval implementation, damn... (But still think that sometimes timeline shouldn't be satisfied. :D )
P.S. Gimli and Bard lived during same period, Gimli was 19 years old when Bard was born, or he was 98 old when Bard died, so I don't see there any timeline problem. :P
--- Zitat von: Tienety am 24. Jul 2015, 12:56 ---But Gondor Army spell now summon 9 units and one hero. I think that spell with 9 units and 3 heroes is too much for one spell. :o
In Addition, Rohan answers summons 6 battalion of rohirrim riders and 4 heroes(Merry, Eowyn, Eomer, and Theoden).
I think it is not necessary to add Lindon units to this spell. They are already integrated to Outpost.
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Ok, I admit. I was greedy about that ultimate spell. :D All because I really like Arnor faction. :) Still, I think that there should be then Gondor Knights (3 battalions) and 3 more elven infatry battalions.(Some of Imladris infantry units is better in my opinion then lancers. :) ) But as I said, 6 battalions of cavalry can also pass. ;) (Because of Gondor comparison your suggestion have advantage.)
You have right about Lindon's units, they are integrated into that outpost.
--- Zitat von: Tienety am 24. Jul 2015, 12:56 ---This is my intention for Arnor:
Hobbit and Lindon as mini-faction only for Settlement and Outpost
Imladris and Gondon as mini-faction only for spellbook
--- Ende Zitat ---
Yes, I know and complete support give about that. :) (If that wasn't so obvious from previous reply. :) )
--- Zitat von: Tienety am 24. Jul 2015, 12:56 ---I think that the current Cirdan's ability for Lindon Spire should to stay in Imladris.
But Maybe only Lindon Spire level 1-3 for Imladris and level 4 for Arnor's Outpost.
You're right, the spear is better for Mithlond riders. ;)
About Cirdan, yes maybe mount is not suitable for them.
Also, I noticed that he has ability "Journey to the West". I think that this isn't fit at the time of the fall of Arnor. This ability is more suitable in Imladris at the time of Lord of the Ring.
Level 1: Ring Narya (same as now)
Level 3: Quickly help for Arnor
Cirdan with his army rush to help Arnor. For 30 seconds Cirdan and Lindon units deals +25% movement speed.
Level 5: Healing Aura (same as now)
Level 7: Guardians of Lindon
Cirdan summon temporarily battalion of his best warriors. So, they will not be removed from Arnor.
Level 10: foresight (same as now).
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Agree, with that idea about Lindon Spire for Imladris and it upgrade process. LvL 4 Spire is for Arnor, that is also where we agree. (I posted that also in previous reply. :) )
That idea about changing Cirdan's ability "Journey to the West" is justified, totally agree with you.
Cirdan's set of abilities you suggest is very nice and I like it. (New change is on right place, and we keep that requirement for palantir usage on lvl 10.)
--- Zitat von: Tienety am 24. Jul 2015, 12:56 ---If I know, Arnor has only three archer units in 4.1:
1) Arnor archers
2) Arnor rangers(two additional forms are just improvements for this unit)
3) Guardians of Lindon(this unit will be only temporarily in my concept)
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Ok, I made mistake, counted all skins, and in that count are 5 different skins or 3 model units without hobbits.
--- Zitat von: Tienety am 24. Jul 2015, 12:56 ---Maybe they can have the passive spell in spellbook:
Support of hobbits :
Hobbits go to the battle against the enemies of Arnor. Now you can recruit Hobbit archers in hobbit farms and you can recruit Hobbit militia +25% faster.
In addition, Hobbit archers had an important role in the Battle of Fornost, I think they should be permanently in hobbit farm.
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This is very nice, and I am for it, hope that in future this changes gonna be accepted. :) Lore is on it's side, so I really can't complain about this idea, btw I like it. :) (Because that power slot is nicely used.)
--- Zitat von: Tienety am 24. Jul 2015, 12:56 ---Maybe this hobbit hero "Tuk" can be new scout for Arnor and maybe he can summon this hobbit donkey riders. They are fit for the role. 8-)
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Nice again. :) He was know like rider, horse rider? So this idea have a nice Lore basic concept.
So far me agree about almost everything:
Lindon part, Lindon's units, Cirdan, This new Hobbit idea about unlocking archers and milita buff and new scout Hobbit hero. (Fool of a Tuk will need new thread about his tuning. :D)
Ultimate help power is something we have little disagreement, but it isn't something serious. xD (Few battalions of difference. :) )
--- Zitat von: Tienety am 24. Jul 2015, 12:56 ---Aranarth was Chieftains of the Dúnedain but after the destruction of Arnor kingdom. So, Prince form of Aranarth is fit for Arnor faction.
He should start as a prince but later to become Chieftains of the Dúnedain.
Similarly to Aragorn which start as Chieftains of the Dúnedain and later to become King of Gondor. I think that Aragorn and Aranarth can have same role - hero killer.
If Carthaen is dead, he should not be in Arnor as scout. I do not know, maybe Edain team used his character from game but they ignored his role no-canon role and death in the campaign.
Maybe Arnor does not need this no-canon character and Aranarth can have two roles in Arnor:
Aranarth(prince form): hero killer as Aragorn in Gondor
Aranarth(Chieftains of the Dúnedain form): units support as Faramir in Gondor
He can be available in Arnor fortress(only prince form) and you can use his Chieftains of the Dúnedain form only if you build Rangers camp.
So, Gondor/Arnor will have these roles for heroes:
Pippin/hobbit hero or Carthaen - Scout hero
Denethor/Malbeth - Hero and unit supporter
Beregond/Araphant - Building supporter
Boromir/Arvedui - Tank
Aragorn/Aranarth(prince form) - Hero killer
Gandalf/Gandalf - Mass slayer
Faramir/Aranarth(Chieftains of the Dúnedain form) - Unit supporter
Imrahil/Cirdan - Unit supporter
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My post starts here:
Ok, lot of text will be here. :)
This is point where we disagree most.
First I say again, two roles for Aranarth are too much. Right now in game I think that is main error. (Currently in game he is supporter in both forms, and that is ok, I know that team want to cover that first 40 year of his life when he was Prince,(to satisfy Lore) and they make unique hero. But this also made some problems with Lore,(open choise for his destiny!? His destiny is known!) at end he is first ranger leader in wildeness, simply that is his main role in this Faction.)
If you look on timeline like this is Arnor Kingdom, and it lasted to 1975 year of T.A. after that it's not existing, and this is Arnor faction(Arnor Kingdom) and Prince form is fit for it, I don't really have nothing against that. But in that kind of thinking, Aranarth can't be as Chieftain of the Dúnedain part of this faction, and generally ranger's camp and his form of Chieftain of the Dúnedain are not usable. (If you watch Arnor faction like Arnor Kingdom in strict timeline.) In this situation Aranarth can have killer hero role, and skin of "Prince model", and Carthaen can take his place on ranger camp. (As I said this ranger camp will now be able to produce Cardolan's rangers, not rangers like now in game with 2 options of upgrade.) That is reasonable solution if we watch all in strict boundaries in timeline.(And I got feeling that you watch in this strict boundaries.)
(I presume that when you read this, you will say to yourself that you didn't mention Carthaen at all, and what am I writting here. :D I am just trying to implement your suggestion about Aranarth killer role, and I presume team won't so easily remove Carthaen).
Aranarth and Aragorn have similar fates but in versa way. Aragorn started like ranger and became king and Aranarth started like prince (Never had chance for coronation) and became first ranger leader of his people. (They started to live nomadic life.)
In this matter of things, it is justified to mention that lvl role upgrade for Aranarth (Start like prince and later will become ranger leader if there is ranger camp) is bad in my opinion. He starts like hero killer and later will become unit supporter, that role's shift is too much, and it's pointless.(Aragorn is whole time hero killer, and in comparison with Gondor, in Gondor there is no hero with role switch, and reasons I wrote above) Because of that I said from start Aranarth is Hero killer and Carthaen replace him at Cardolan's ranger camp, simple and strict.
This is ok solution but I think it is better to watch things not in strict boundaries of timeline and do something similar I propose in previous reply.
My almost same preposition:
So we agreed about new Hobbit scout hero.
Agreed about Lindon's part, Cirdan, and new hobbit unit,building, power change.
I again suggest Araval like new hero for killer role. (That gap of 47 years is something on which we could turn a blind eye, because there is a lot similar things in game where time gaps are not used like obstacles, and I am not suggesting some member of dynasty who is 500 yeas away from these members (Like king Argeleb I, who was fierce warrior but stupid strategist and diplomat.), I am suggesting closest member who in same time have very fitting biography. Ok, I undersand problem with gap of 47 years, one hero is dead before another is born, they don't coexist in timeline, but let me to mention you that Arnor (and Angmar) don't coexist with whole other factions (Dwarves, Rohan,Gondor) in timeline. (timeline of implemented heroes for this factions, example Arvedui fight in game side by side with Eomer??? 1000+ years separate them) So I really don't see that gap like main obstacle.)
Carthaen and Cardolan's units to be removed from game. (There is no scout role anymore, and in this part of timeline Cardolan are in ruins, it's in ruins 250 years before rule of Araval, and there is main reason, because he is fictioned character out of Tolkien's World!)
Araphant gets new model and skin.
Arvendui stays same.
Aranarth takes unit support role from start. (I really think that is most fitting for him. We don't have strict boundaries in timeline, we watch Arnor faction with small gap of history after Fornost fall in 1975 year of T.A. because I think that is also important part in their history.(Their nomadic life really need to be integrated. :) )) Aranarth stays at ranger camp (He was chieftain for longer than any would be after him, ruling for 131 years, because of this he needs to be Faramir's comparison, this role is his main, he was prince and armored warrior but this was his destiny.), Dúnedain Rangers are retained, there is upgrade unlock for them when Aranarth gets 10 lvl.
I presume team will find idea about removing Carthaen and Cardolan's units too radical, because they invested a lot of work in them, but it's really justified from Lore and timeline aspects. (Because of that I would say combination of Hobbit/Carthaen scout role stays open in general. :) )
Final preposition:
So, Gondor/Arnor will have these roles for heroes:
Pippin/hobbit hero Tuk (or Carthaen) - Scout hero
Denethor/Malbeth - Hero and unit supporter
Beregond/Araphant (New nice royal model) - Building supporter
Boromir/Arvedui - Tank
Aragorn/Araval - Hero killer
Gandalf/Gandalf - Mass slayer
Faramir/Aranarth (Chieftains of the Dúnedain form only! :) ) - Unit supporter
Imrahil/Cirdan - Unit supporter
Tienety:
You're right, Aranarth should not have option to choose a his destiny. This is against the lore. But I think he should have both forms(the main function of these forms will be Toggle Weapon). Problem is just a name for rangers form. This form can have a new name "Leader of rangers". His role will be hero killer in both forms. :P
I have an idea for abilities of Aranarth:
Prince of Arnor form(weapon: sword):
Level 1: Charge of Prince (something like blade master for Aragorn)
For 30 seconds Aranarth deals +100% attack and +25% attack speed
Level 3: Mount/Dismount
Level 5: Leader of rangers
Arannath is becoming a leader of rangers of North
Switches to his rangers form.
Now rangers can gets improvements: The Faithful of Aranarth
Level 7: Hope of the Kingdon(same as now)
Level 10: Aid of the Prince(same as now)
Leader of rangers form(weapon: bow):
Level 1: Deadly marksman:
Enemy hero dealing a smaller damage. Also, Enemy hero moves slowly for 15 seconds.
Level 3: Athelas (same as now)
Level 5: Prince of Arnor
Switches to his prince form
Level 7: Hope of the Kingdon(same as now)
Level 10: Aid of the Prince(same as now)
S, Aranarth will be in Arnor fortress and Carthaen in rangers camp. Carthaen will stay in the mod. He can have the same role as Faramir in Gondor. ;)
I think Carthaen for is better for Arnor than dead Araval. xD
Also, It is a one lore problem with Bandobras Took. Bandobras Took was born long time ago(Almost a thousand) after Fall of the Arnor. [ugly]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Bandobras_Took
Old Bandobras Took model in Arnor can have a new name: Bucca of the Marish
He lived at the time of the Fall of Arnor. Also, He became first Thain of the Shire. 8-)
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Bucca_of_the_Marish
So, Gondor/Arnor will have these roles for heroes:
Pippin/Bucca of the Marish - Scout hero
Denethor/Malbeth - Hero and unit supporter
Beregond/Araphant (New nice royal model) - Building supporter
Boromir/Arvedui - Tank
Aragorn/Aranarth - Hero killer
Gandalf/Gandalf - Mass slayer
Faramir/Carthaen- Unit supporter
Imrahil/Cirdan - Unit supporter
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