[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] General Suggestions

Heroes - how powerful should they be?

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Walküre:
I think that the heroes are arguably the most interesting and significant elements of every faction, along obviously with the other elements and parts of the game  :)
This topic is crucial and essential  8-)

1) Without any secret, my favourite hero is obviously Galadriel  :)
She is the leader of her faction and the guardian of the enchanted Golden Wood, made enchanted and sacred by Galadriel herself.

But, since she is not part of the Edain Mod 4.0 yet (I obviously have some very interesting and valuable proposals about her, but I will wait the right time and won't reveal my cards yet  :P), I have to talk about my current favourite hero.

Currently, I really like and appreciate Khamûl :)
I think you perfectly managed to give him a proper status and proper powers for his role as a Building Destroyer; with the passive power 'Khamûl's Presence' his Magic can gradually corrode all the structures he is next to.
Really REMARKABLE!
A true representation of Tolkien's idea of Magic, the presence of a powerful magical being (good or evil) have effects on the Weather of the World and on the sorrounding things  :)

2) I generally use all the heroes of Mordor and Isengard, but I tend not to use or recruit later heroes like Pippin, Boromir when I play Gondor, and Théodred when I play Rohan; I personally don't find those heroes really particular both in their presence and powers.

3) It's generally really fun and exciting playing with them.
But, sometimes, I feel annoyed if they are killed too soon or have not significant effects on the battlefield; for example when Gandalf or Saruman encounter Gríma or other Hero Killers, it seems that their doom is already decided, like they had no chance.
I know that the Hero Killers are so effective for their own role, but, at least, Gandalf or Saruman should have a possibility to repulse them and have thus a chance to flee.

4) The goal has been mostly achieved, but I think that powerful heroes (especially the leaders of the factions) should definitely be more resistant.

5) The heroes are generally effective against troops and structures, but they should totally be more effective against monsters and other heroes.

6) Yes, I do find them useful.

7) His spells should be stronger, and also very dangerous also for the other heroes.

8) The blast should annihilate completely all the basic troops and soldiers, like Orcs and Gondor's basic soldiers (obviously if they were not enhanced by armours or other upgrades); and I would prefer a less damage but a wider radius.

Given these numbers, I would say 700-800.

9) The 'Word of Power' is indeed powerful already by its nature of an iconic destructive power from BFME1  :)

As I wrote for the wizard's blast, it should annihilate completely all the basic units without upgrades and 'moderately' harm all the other ones.

The Dark Lord:
1 i ilke the nazgul khamul witchking lurtz uluk gorthaur saruman gothmog
2 i dont use molluk alot because of the price its to high
3 heroes are real fun makes it more like the movies
4 nazgul are too low on healt the cant take one battalion of spearon on on there own the witcking to weak khamul healt is good i like how he is now and nazgul on there fell beast are weak too
5 well i think spearmon are too steong againt heroes the die quiqly
6 range attacks are fine
7 i think gorthaur should get a attack abilty on lvl 4  maby 5 to make him more useful on the battlefield
That what i think about it :)

AndulusOptimus:
Dear Edain-Team,
great architects and creators of beautiful games

First of all: I always loved that you develop this GAME (not mod) together hand in hand with the community. Something all big studios should copy and at the end the most rewarding and effective way, even though you have to endure some hard discussion times. ;)

Before answering your questions let me say, that I mostly play the "Legendary heroes"-mode. But more on this during my feedback:

1) Aragon is for example one of the heroes, who is big fun to play, because he is changing in abilities and design over time with his experience. I LOVE this! This is one great example for a very interesting character, though I have to admit his stats are not the best (espacially health). Also I love all Mordor heroes, especially the system between sauron and his ringheroes, as well as Ugluk from Isengart. Rohan heroes are ok, but I only very rarely play Rohan, so this may be the reason why.

2) When I think about it, the only one I have never used is Shakur. But I rarely use wargs with isengart which is my personal style when I play isengart as faction. But I have to admit he is one of the least interesting characters - for me!

3) YES!! Heroes are the key to the uniqueness of the factions, the fun, the versatility, the identification with the world!! And you created GREAT heroes and villains already, with unique abilities, great animations and and and! NEVER relinquish this great piece of work!!

4) Good question! I mostly play "Legendary heroes" because in my opinion heroes in the other game modes die far too fast, level up too slow in comparison to the speed of the game and thus cost far too much. Especially some faction leaders like Gandalf.

5) Mostly heroes die too fast, damage is in my opinion mostly very good balanced. Maybe some issues here and there but well I could not tell you specificly what.

6) Haven´t seen elven ranged heroes yet, hope they have some more distance. But I got no complaints about the ranged heroes which are established yet.

Switching weapon is in my opinion a very unique and useful skill, but sometimes none of both skills is mastered strong enough. For example Farodin and Lurtz both do no great damage in aiming with a bow or slaying with the sword. I would think its great if theres still a specialisation. For example Lurtz is stronger with his sword and Farodin is stronger with his bow (as in the movies). You could give them additional skills when having another weapon (like lurtz already has).

7) Gandalf is far too weak for one of the strongest characters. So are his abilities.

8) something about 400-600. Shouldn´t be too strong but strong enough to kill middle class units like gondor soldiers without males (at least when gandalf the white!).

9) FIRST: Gandalfs health should be immensive higher; SECOND: Levelling him should become harder, due to the reason that when you use his abilities well, he levels up quite fast, especially against armies. THIRD: yes, Word of Power should damage intensively. Mordor, for example, has other advantages that hold against Gandalfss word of Power. Perhaps you can prolong the cooldown-time, because it surely is a very strong power and should not be used frequently.

At last let me say, that especially to the mages Saruman and Gandalf you could add more powers, like you did with Saruman in Edain mod 3.8.1. I have to admit I really dislike Saruman in this version. Hes boring and week and no faction leader at all.

But as always, these are minor balance issues and very high-level critics, you know, we all love this game and cant wait for MORE! ;)

All the best, stay sharp, cheers

your companion,
AndulusOptimus

Morgul Orc:
1) I like Khamul, The Witch-King, Gandalf, Saruman, Aragorn,Theoden, Lurtz, Ugluk and Gothmog. I like to use all Heroes of Isengard and Mordor except Molluk because he's a little expensive. I also like to use all Heroes of Rohan and Gondor but not big fan of the Hobbit Heroes.

2) Some Heroes like Gorbag are weak and cheap that can be useful at start but they don't matter in later game.

3) Yes, I think every Hero is fun to play because they are unique in the Hero system that the Edain Team made.

4) To be fair I think Heroes like Khamul needs to have more health, less than The Witch-King but more than the regular Nazguls. When I use the Nazguls they are usually on foot because they die very quick if they were on horse from pike and if they are on fellbeast from arrows, even 1 archer battalion without fire arrows can inflict good damage and also they die quickly if they are attacking a base from buildings that shoot arrows. I think the rest can be solved with the Hero game mode.

5) I think monsters are weaker now against Heroes, you can fairly kill a Cave troll easily, I remember in BFME1 Cave trolls knock down Heroes when they hit them that's why you need archers and pike to help kill the Cave Troll.

6) Range is good since the Hero will attack from a far but when melee for example Lurtz has a better power than when in range.

7) Not generally weak but I think he needs a little adjustments

8) I think Wizard blast should be a single target attack that can take down one battalion since it's a level 1 power even if the battalion is armed, it should take the battalion down this way, it can be used wisely on Hero units and elite units or units with armor. Or It can take down HP to red as someone here suggested. I however disagree with the idea that it should knock down basic units and units without armor  because all of Mordor's basic orcs cannot receive heavy armor.

9) Word of Power should either knock down enemies and make their defence really weak and vulnerable to damage or take their HP to red.

And I suggest that the Lights of the Ishtari ability should be changed into causing the Enemy Hero to flee in fear instead of light damage like in the films.

I also really think Gandalf should have a powerful leadership, since most of the times he is giving people hope in the films, maybe resistance to fear as well.

kreso:
Hi Edain team :)

Enjoy in reading :D
I please You Edain team(Admin). I would like to see Your answer and critics to this suggestions. I make some corrections and amendments. Sorry for my English.

1.,2.,3.,4.) I give some suggestion for each faction heros:

Rohan
Eyown, she is only1 who can challange many enemy heros in Rohan hero pool. REALLY GOOD JOB .
Theoden, corupted or not, early game potentional in my opinon that is the best hero u made, later Theoden's skill Glory Hour should give instant XP).
Theodred is bad for late game, dont have leadership, maybe he could have some leadership for Royal Guards(on horses, and foot if u make Hama's Guards permanet), he is King's son, so Royal Gurads are more motivated to fight.
Eomer spear should have more dmg (he killed Mumakil with it :P) And his lvl10 skill, should call, spawn "Loyal Rohirrim" or "Eored" (maybe some sort of Royal Guard) because now his lvl10 is hard to use in good situation, and it is useless a lot of time, because when he is lvl 10 i do not use that skill, coz i already have Rohirrim to do same effect as that skill did. I think "Loyal Rohirrim"or "Eored" should be fearless, and bit faster than other Rohirrim. They could look like normal Rohirrim with just some detail, who makes them a bit diffrent.
Royal Guards most be more connected with Hama, for example Royal Gurads(required Hama spawned, coz i woudnt spend lot of resuources to upgrade foged blades and shields, to unlock Royal Guards).
 Three Hunters are too low duration. Maybe they should be permanent after 3rd cast, or 1 by 1 called for every cast. but this is litle bit useless. If u get them, than Rohan should have too many heros,if u see problem in that, so longer duration of them. But count how many heroes have Mordor, so it would be equal. They was all time in Rohan and defend Rohan. They deserve thier place in ther hero pool. I know Aragon most be uniqe same as Gimli and Legolas, but thier main part was in Rohan. Maybe Gimli and Legolas could be summoned by spell and Aragon just periodically same as now.

 In Gondor (I love Aragon as figure of all story of the WotR. He is best of all men, and he most be more usefull, he is like hero killer, masskiller and unit supporter. Yeah that would be 2OP, but lets balance thing, u make him really fun coz of his transformance on 4,7,10lvls, but he is not so playable and that transformance will be always used. U dont let player to decide will he used that now or later, every next upgrade/transformace is better and better, so normaly u pick it fastest as u can. Advice: lvl1-3 he gets heal (Athelas), Cloak of Ranger(Invisibility for some seconds while he can move), and Blade Master(bonus attack dmg)  in lvl4, from Strider he goes into Aragon(gets Elven Scabbard(range one high dmg hit)), Passive: gets low splash radius(He can dmg 2-3 targets in front) and hero supporter (Heros near Aragon gain attack dmg and defence/moral defence(armor/health)) Lvl7 he transform his blade to Andruril, He gets passive: bonus attack dmg and bonus attack dmg and armor to Blade Master. In lvl 10 transfor in King Elessar,Passive: leadership bonus for all unit(fearless and bonus defence and faster gain xp).So delete mini-Army of the Dead that he call as lvl 10 because we have that in 10pp. Or maybe u can use that skill only if Aragon is lvl 7 so if he have Anduril.  Cost should be 2500, but for every transform more 400 gold, so he cost at last 3700(U cant get king for just 2500) :). Boromir should get some hp, splash radius, a bit lower dmg, and bonus leadership is only for units from Gondor baracks. Faramir higer bow dmg, lower blade dmg, bonus leadership only for Rangers and some hp for him, cost 1400.That leaderships stacks with Aragon's leadership. Denethor should cost 800 gold. Just compare him with Theoden, and u will see why should he cost 800. Gandalf in 8-9. Bergond is balanced and very fine and playable. :)
Gondor have a lot of diffrent units, but hero... :/ So they need some buffs(op things) for heros, same as Isengard.

 Isengard
 I like Lurtz blade and 3lvl skill when he gets splash dmg. Grima, cost 1300. he is really nice hero killer, Isengard needs him, they dont have so many heros. Honestly all heros are hero killers, so. 2 no-hero killers could kill 1 hero killer. So dont nerf him coz he is strong right now. :) 
Saruman, he is leader Isengard with full dominance, he most be good in every aspect, and economy and army, suporting both.He most be so connected with every thing about Isengard. I cant speak about that coz then i most speak about Isengard playstyle, but U are much better in that thing than me. U make Isengard playstyle good, just intergate Saruman more. He is a bit low hp, just need more resistance, coz he is easy target, if u want land good wizard blast u most be close units, than enemys assassns kill him easly.

Mordor, Nazguls are balanced well, high dmg/low hp, as they should be, but I have nice advice for all Nazguls(including Khamul, Witch-King, and Black Riders) they should be same as Sauron, imortal. So my suggestion is: Nazguls, when they die, turns into ghost like sauron, but look like ghost(white):
 1.) they most back to the Citadel to be respawned (required Sauron pawned) but lower cost after 1. time spawning.
 2.) they have timer like sauron for respawning, then u can balance them.
Because they spam orcwarriors and nazguls so fast and just that combination always wins. So if u put longer cooldown on that timer, they will switch game strategy to other thing that u put in Mordor faction and game with or against Mordor wil be more interesting.
Mollok is a bit expensive, he should be 2000, but lower dmg.
Mouth of Sauron, verry well because he is difficult to play, and u just let ur orc warriors, nazguls and orc archers to fight and u control Mouth of Sauron best as u can.


So i love to play with: Theoden, Eyown, Gamling Lurtz, Sauron(coz of Influence), Nazglus, Bergond, Denethor. Both hobbit :D


I dont even spawn: Saruman, Mollok, Gandalf, Aragon, Faramir, Theodred, Grima.



5)Bow of Faramir should kill Mountain Troll in 3-6 hits depends on lvl. Because spears and Bows should kill trols easly, so same Faramir should.



6)Ratio from Bow and Sword should be  1:0,75=sword:bow. Elves will bring more that thing i think. :)




7., 8. and 9.) 

Gandalf: His basic attacks most be more massive or u most reduce Cooldown of wizard blast. His cost is 3000, too expensive. So buff for Gandalf.Should have 300dmg(lvl1)-700dmg(lvl 10)(and 2pp,Gandalf The White +100% attack bonus)1400 at last(when he reach lvl 10, all units shuld be armored so that woudnt be so OP.), but lower cooldown for Wizard Blast.(if that is possible).
World of Power should declining with larger area of effect. So high dmg in center, low dmg on the edge of effect. :)

Thanks if U read to the end.
I love U I appreciate your work :) I please You Edain team(Admin). I would like to see ur answer and critics to this suggestions.

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