[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Dwarven Suggestions
Greed power change
Elendils Cousin 3. Grades:
The first problem in my opinion is the "power" of the spell. There are two sides to this, really. First of all, the internal competition in the dwarven spellbook is very strong. Beorn is a beast capable of deciding smaller fights on his own, and everybody knows that towers are awesome. Greed, on the other hand, gives you money. Sure, more money is always great, but the dwarves don't profit from an income boost any more than other factions. You could even argue that most of them have some way of using 1500 extra cash better (Mordor is very dependant on heroes, Gondor has more buildplots to get additional economy buildings, Loriens base building is very expensive), the obvious example being Isengard. They have the devastation(?) spell that looks quite similar, but is in my opinion stronger just because of working under different circumstances. Devastation allows Isengard to buy scouts and wildmen as much as possible, because it can pay for teching up by itself. You get something like 1500+ resources, that's enough for getting a second uruk pit and teching up in the first one. And tadaa, you suddenly have two buildings you can spam uruks with.
Tl;dr^^: The dwarves can usually get better use out of their great combat spells than economy spells.
That doesn't mean that it is worthless, though. It is just a bit more niche than the others. Which leads me to the other problem I have with greed: Three points for a somewhat decent chance at getting 1000 resources? No, thanks. So the first, most important step has to be increasing the reward part of the risk-reward-system^^
Adrigabbro's idea seems fine to me, but I would change the values a bit. Something like 50%-25%-15%-10%. 75% chance of success in total is still not that great, and the possibility of RNG not working in your favor is very real. Wasting three spellpoints and getting nothing for it is huge. Maybe the summoned goblins could drop increased exp/spellpoints, so at least you get something for killing them. You could probably even increase the money you get, but the important thing is that the overall income is worth the three spellpoints.
At the moment, it is not.
CragLord:
--- Zitat von: Adrigabbro am 22. Nov 2015, 11:14 ---Hey, that's a good idea!
Why not go further? Something like four options:
- Instant 1500 gold (10% chance)
- Instant 750 gold (40% chance)
- Goblins (40% chance)
- Balrog (10% chance)
--- Ende Zitat ---
I would also say, that this is nice way of decrease probability of Balrog pop up. I support this also, it is lore friendly and it represent simple change I guess. :)
Ea's Cousin, so what do you suggest as final proposal, decrease of power points for this power or same 3 (four in sum) point for this power and increasing of money on higher value than 1500? You are beta tester and I presume experienced one, so lets be precise with proposal, what is in your opinion the best change? :)
Odysseus:
I agree with what has been said. Personally, as long as the RNG is removed, I am fine with whatever can be come up with. However, I do think that the gold chests mechanic should be kept, simply because it fits the Dwarves and their greed for gold and other minerals and metals from my point of view.
That said, I think it is a bit difficult to compare it to Devastation, since Isengard is generally less cost-effective in early game and those boosts in economy are invaluable. Greed, on the other hand, is kind of harsh compared to it even though it is from the same spell level and can thus have similar timing. The enemy can still steal the resources and even worse, a Balrog can nick your mine and you get absolutely nothing, except a waste of a mine and a 3 PP spell. I know that Dwarves have different faction dynamics and mechanics, but why not simply make the spell stable with a small buff and a few tweaks? I know lore accuracy is important, but in this case, I feel that gameplay is most definetely suffering from that Balrog.
Proposal: When succesful, you approximately receive 1000-1200 resources. Furthermore, the Balrog is removed completely and instead, there is a chance that two or three hordes of Goblins can potentially pop out (aiming at 20-25%) and attack your mine. If you manage to kill all the goblins, you get half of the resources (so 600ish) and Exp from killing the goblins. Something along those lines I think this is more managable.
Thoughts?
™Æ¿® Aragorn £ ‡™:
--- Zitat von: Odysseus am 23. Nov 2015, 02:03 ---I agree with what has been said. Personally, as long as the RNG is removed, I am fine with whatever can be come up with. However, I do think that the gold chests mechanic should be kept, simply because it fits the Dwarves and their greed for gold and other minerals and metals from my point of view.
That said, I think it is a bit difficult to compare it to Devastation, since Isengard is generally less cost-effective in early game and those boosts in economy are invaluable. Greed, on the other hand, is kind of harsh compared to it even though it is from the same spell level and can thus have similar timing. The enemy can still steal the resources and even worse, a Balrog can nick your mine and you get absolutely nothing, except a waste of a mine and a 3 PP spell. I know that Dwarves have different faction dynamics and mechanics, but why not simply make the spell stable with a small buff and a few tweaks? I know lore accuracy is important, but in this case, I feel that gameplay is most definetely suffering from that Balrog.
Proposal: When succesful, you approximately receive 1000-1200 resources. Furthermore, the Balrog is removed completely and instead, there is a chance that two or three hordes of Goblins can potentially pop out (aiming at 20-25%) and attack your mine. If you manage to kill all the goblins, you get half of the resources (so 600ish) and Exp from killing the goblins. Something along those lines I think this is more managable.
Thoughts?
--- Ende Zitat ---
I agree :D Though, if you get goblins, maybe you could only get exp (But more exp) xD.
That way it is a double purpose power.
You could get money or level up a hero (Or a battalion) It also keeps some of the lore, but instead turns it into a more positive outcome :P
Adrigabbro:
Of course the important point in my post was the idea, not the figures. I also agree with all of you guys: the potential income must outweigh the risks.
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