[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] General Suggestions

Brief General Ideas

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Halbarad:
So, how do you want flying units to be changed? Eagles should be stronger in general against everything, especially buildings? Eagles are already considered to be Gondors strongest tier 3 Spell and they can destroy whole armies when they are used good. Making eagles stronger in general would mean either using less eagles for this spell or making this spell a tier 4 spell.
However, I did once suggest to reconsider flying units and make them vulnerable to revenge trample damage, same as trolls or cav when they are attacking, so that they don't have to be so weak against archers anymore, I'd still like to see that being implemented (just imagine what would have happened if the orc-army in BotfA would have raised their spears directing to the eagles who were flying directly into them). Such a system would especially raise the strength of Dragons like Smaug, they could attack with Dragonfire without taking any risk to get revenge trample damage. Also normal flying units wouldn't have to be so weak against archers and Dwaves would have an easier time fighting them.

And yes, I do also think that Smaug should be much stronger then any other flying unit  (like in 3.8.1, where you needed 6000 + Ring to get him). But of course it should also be possible to kill him, just think of it like that: If you fire a thousand arrows on him, one should be able to penetrate his eye or something.

steadii:

--- Zitat von: Halbarad am 24. Dez 2020, 22:52 ---However, I did once suggest to reconsider flying units and make them vulnerable to revenge trample damage, same as trolls or cav when they are attacking, so that they don't have to be so weak against archers anymore, I'd still like to see that being implemented (just imagine what would have happened if the orc-army in BotfA would have raised their spears directing to the eagles who were flying directly into them). Such a system would especially raise the strength of Dragons like Smaug, they could attack with Dragonfire without taking any risk to get revenge trample damage. Also normal flying units wouldn't have to be so weak against archers and Dwaves would have an easier time fighting them.

And yes, I do also think that Smaug should be much stronger then any other flying unit  (like in 3.8.1, where you needed 6000 + Ring to get him). But of course it should also be possible to kill him, just think of it like that: If you fire a thousand arrows on him, one should be able to penetrate his eye or something.

--- Ende Zitat ---

I think the same way. Flying units should be vulnerable and not so much efective against pikes and units with heavy armour in general, but against normal troops should be OP. Normal flying units should be vulnerable to archers, too, but definitely not dragons.

Birds:
I don't think that flying units are weak in the first place. Sure maybe they take a bit too much damage from archers at the moment. But they do a lot of damage and the eagles are arguably the strongest tier 3 spell. Flying units being weak against pikes is a nice idea but not easy to implement.
But even now flying units are far from useless. You don't see them often, but when used at the right time, they are devastating. If the enemy doesn't have many archers or you focused his archers and killed them, eagles can kill all that's left. Same goes for flying Nazgul, even though most of the time they are more useful with their armor.
I imagine that Dragons will be a lot tankier than other flying units, after all they are armored in scales and not some big flying bird.

Seleukos I.:
I agree with Birds that birds, I mean eagles  [uglybunti] are far from beeing weak atm.
Flying Nazgul also can be devastating, in certain situations. If your opponent isn't ready for them and doesn't have any archers/ranged units, then they can deal a lot of damage.
You can kinda compare them with cavalry: Cav units wreck swords, archers and heroes, can outrun their own counter (pikes), but once they get chaught by pikes they die quickly. Flying Nazgul wreck everything that doesn't shoot up, can outrun (most) archer units, but when archers get to shoot at them they die quickly. The difference between the two is, that cav can also be killed by archers and swords, flying units can't get killed by melee units. This means that ranged units need to be a harder counter to flying units than pikes are to cav.
This beeing said, I think that both eagles as well as flying Nazgul are in a good spot right now, in terms of combat power.

Concerning dragons:

--- Zitat ---But Smaug with nearly impermeable skin shouldnt be, it should be nearly unstopable force.
--- Ende Zitat ---
Well, I agree with you that smaug - if we go by the lore - should be able to kill every army you can build in Edain with one breathfire. Same goes for most bases. The problem however is, that we are talking about a RTS game. And in a game, Smaug, if he should be buildable in a normal game, needs to have some counter.
Let's  take a look at the dragons in the valilla ROTWK:
They were able to set ablaze armies as well as building, they were able to deal a lot of damage. But, and that's the thing, you were rather squishy. You could kill them with archers, with heroes and with pikes (if he ran into them). Also Drogoth, the dragon hero, was able to deal devastating damage, but he also died quickly vs archers.
Now this "interpretation" of dragons is very different of what we see in the Hobbit movies or read about in the hobbit or silmarillion books, but it worked in terms of gameplay.

If Smaug (or any other dragon) in this game would be a "nearly unstopable force", as you suggested, than he would need to cost something like 20 000 resources. This would mean you almost never ever get to see him in a competetive game - and if you do, it's game over immediately, because of how strong he is.
Lorewise this would make sense, ofc: If smaug decided to join any battle, this battle would most likely be over right away, but gameplay wise this would be trash^^

The best way I see to have a really strong and op smaug would be by making him go super ham once you got the ring: If a ring is in the game the players usually aren't looking for balanced gameplay anyways, so a super strong smaug wouldn't be too much of a problem here.

But in a normal game (without ringheroes) every faction should be able to counter a flying dragon, even if it doesn't really make sense in terms of lore.

Best regards,
Seleukos

Éomer Éadig:
I wouldlike to make a suggestion concerning catapults and ballistas. I would like them to do more damage to buildings, but have a lower firing rate. As it stand now, they are extremely effective against armies, provided they have just a small meatshield in front.

As an example, you can kill Gandalf with one ballista and one uruk troop, as Gandalf will be continuously stunlocked by the siege engine, with a split second window to escape (if micromanaged) which can be countered by the troop. Siege engines in general are sometimes just a massive pain to deal with.

Against base buildings then, they do tend to deal little damage, hence the damage buff against buildings.

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