Does Iron Hills need 1 more Hero and who should he be!? :)

[LordDainIronfoot]

Hello mates! Hope you all are good!?

Now with the most recent Updates Edain Team made Iron Hills really unique and strong Dwarven Realm as it should be! But there is a small problem on which as I see on ModDB other Fans agree with me and that is that Iron Hills was left with really small Hero Rooster of 4 Heroes(being Dain,Thorin III,Murin and Drar) although all awesome and firce figters and Heroes I can't help but feel Iron Hills is at big dissadvantage in that part!

Now the New IHs Scout/Cavalry Units is simply briliant so there is no way we could want to  lose that for another Hero,plus I feel the Ram Scouts/Cavalry are very unque Scout System which shouldn't be lost!

And I think adding 2-3 other non canon Heroes is not so good idea on which neither Team nor Fans,nor even I would like or agree or it is not even neccessery! I think that 1 more Hero should be enough to have 5 Good and Well Versed Heroes!

While I really like the new and original idea about Ered Mithrin Outpost and the fact that those Dwarves and tough and strong willed Veterans who do not need a Leader and every one of them is like Hero on his own rights ,i do see a place for a Hero for IHs there BUT not an Ered Mithrin Hero or Leader but rather something else!

In the Hobbit Book there is a mentioning of Dwarven Messanger of Dain with few of his fellow Soldiers!

Trumpets called men and elves to arms. Before long the dwarves could be seen ing up the valley at a great pace. They halted between the river and the eastern spur; but a few held on their way, and crossing the river drew he camp; and there they laid down their ons and held up their hands in sign of peace. Bard went out to meet them, and with him went Bilbo.

“We are sent from Dain son of Nain,” they said wheioned. “We are hastening to our kinsmen in the Mountain, since we learn that the kingdom of old is renewed. But who are you that sit in the plain as foes before defended walls?” This, of course, in the polite and rather old-fashioned language of such occasions, meant simply: “You have no business here. We are going on, so make way or we shall fight you!” They meant to push oween the Mountain and the loop of the river; for the narrow land there did not seem to be strongly guarded.

Bard, of course, refused to allow the dwarves to ght on to the Mountain. He was determio wait until the gold and silver had been brought out in exge for the Arkenstone; for he did not believe that this would be done, if ohe fortress was manned with se and warlike a pany. They had brought with them a great store of supplies; for the dwarves  carry very heavy burdens, and nearly all of Dain’s folk, in spite of their rapid march, bore huge packs on their backs in addition to their ons. They would stand a siege for weeks, and by that time yet more dwarves might e, a more, for Thorin had maives. Also they would be able to reopen and guard some ate, so that the besiegers would have to encircle the whole mountain; and for that they had not suffit numbers.

The Hobbit Chapter 17

And we had based on him our Previous Idea about IHs Scout and called him Narin but with the Ram Scouts he is no longer needed so we can sue him here,the name of course can be changes as everything in this concept!

Now Narin can be the Messanger that Dain send to Ered Mithrin to ask for Aid or just to join Dain in some upcoming Battle! This way Narin will not be Ered Mithrin Hero but an IHs One an eh can be recruited from the Outpost as Messanger of Dain who has come back with the Reainforcments from Ered Mithrin!

He can have one of the following Designs...

I suggest that he should use some Two Handed Weapon since currently none of IHs Heroes use one and will make unique among them!
Here are few Weapons I think will be good...

Now for his Abilities!

LV 1 - Messanger of the Iron Hills/Dain (Passive Ability)
"Narin get's 25% Speed Boost hurrying to deliver Dain's Message"

LV 5 - Narin's Company
"Narins Summons briefly for 20-30 Seconds 4 of his Companions to help him fight his way and deliver the Message"

LV 10 - "Threat for War"
"Narin threatens all foes before him who try to stop him from reaching his Goal.(Enemies near Narin get Fear Effect and lose 15-20% DMG for 20-30 Seconds)"

Now the Abilites are not so good I admit but I couldn't come up with anything better for now! 
So all feedback and ideas about Narin in any way Design,Abilities and etc. are most Welcome!Lets have a great discussion and decide the future of IHs,should they get or not 1 New Hero and if yes let's choose a worthy one to be that Hero!

Greetings and best Regards!Have a great Day Edain Companions!

[Gandalf The Gray]

 i like all of them but the one with the cowl i like more

[Adrigabbro]

Sorry to be the boring guy, but I still think Iron Hills don't need one additional hero, as I have already stated on moddb.
Briefly, here's why: We don't know much about Iron Hills and therefore that's why I think of this faction as a strong and united army with no leader but Dain (and his son Thorin III).
I don't think Iron Hills will suffer that much having 4 heroes, as they'll get three strong cavalry units, a catapult with global range and (I guess) better units on the outpost, for dwarves are stronger than men of Dale/Laketown. Please don't skip that part: tell me why do you think I'm wrong.

Last but not least, I'd rather have current heroes improved before a new one. Drar and Murin (especially Drar) could use, IMO, some rework ; Thorin III still has the same abilities with Iron Hills and with Erebor and Lord Dain is only pictured inthe mod as a unit supporter even though he's known as a great fighter.
Not to mention that I don't really like the idea of this Narin nor his connection with the Grey mountains, but that's personal taste, not an argument.

[Fredius]

The cavalry functions as scout units, therefore I can't see them being equal to heroes. The catapult can only be used IF you are able to win over an outpost, but still we have to see for ourselves first how strong the catapult and ram riders are; only then we can judge .

Ofcourse, I agree that the other heroes should be buffed a bit more, but right now heroes are army killers, if used correctly, and the amount of heroes Ered Luin has gives them a distinct advantage over the Iron Hills. Adding only 1 more hero should balance the game I think.

[Adrigabbro]

If Ram Riders are about as strong as Rohan captains, then three of them is worth one hero. ^^ Still, you're right about that let's wait and see.

EDIT: Brand/Bard can also only be used if you manage to get an outpost. Just like the catapult.

[LordDainIronfoot]

Sorry to be the boring guy, but I still think Iron Hills don't need one additional hero, as I have already stated on moddb.
Briefly, here's why: We don't know much about Iron Hills and therefore that's why I think of this faction as a strong and united army with no leader but Dain (and his son Thorin III).
I don't think Iron Hills will suffer that much having 4 heroes, as they'll get three strong cavalry units, a catapult with global range and (I guess) better units on the outpost, for dwarves are stronger than men of Dale/Laketown. Please don't skip that part: tell me why do you think I'm wrong.

Last but not least, I'd rather have current heroes improved before a new one. Drar and Murin (especially Drar) could use, IMO, some rework ; Thorin III still has the same abilities with Iron Hills and with Erebor and Lord Dain is only pictured inthe mod as a unit supporter even though he's known as a great fighter.
Not to mention that I don't really like the idea of this Narin nor his connection with the Grey mountains, but that's personal taste, not an argument.

First of all mate,having a different opinion on something doesn't make you "the boring guy" ! You ahve your opinion and I respect that!

Now you see Ram Scouts/Cavalry are not Hero wit the same Logic we do not need Imrahil since we have 3 Elite Battalions of Knights of Dol Amroth or similar is the Case with Mordor Riders!

I have suggested a smal visual res kin fro Murin,Drar and Thorin III in the past and the Team sai they will think about it so yeah that is done to a degree! I too agree that Dain is one of the best Warrior of the Dwrven Race and Middle Earth like whole and need some boost thats why I made a Thread about him Geting a little Boost which you can see in the Dwarven Section and support it if you want!

We do not know the strengtht of Ered Mithrin Dwarves but I think the Team mentioned they are as strong as andy Soliders there but with some small Boosts against Monsters so I think they will not be so much stronger than Dale/Lake Town Soldiers for Balacne Reasons may be jsut higher health!

Narin is based on Actual Dwarf from the Books and is from Iron Hills we only gave him a name and Abilities so I think he fits perfect as Messanger as in the Books and is really lore friendly!

He has not Connection with Ered Mithrin he is not Ered Mithrin Hero he is just Messanger send to Ered Mithrin to deliver Mesaage and brign Reinfrocments thats why he is on the Outppost!! Plus no one said that the hero should be done for the next release or soon as possible!The current Heroes are priority and Narin can be created i nthe future when the Team has the time to do it and the wil of course,no on said it do it now!

And as Fredius said we can't judge before we see and try !But indeed the Catapult will have limited Role he can't be compared with well versed and moveable Hero at least in my eyes! And indeed Ered Luin having twice as Much Heroes than IHs is not very balanced and 1 more IHs Hero will do some justice and will not Ruin the Balance I think!
Cuz try to fight all Ered Luin Heroes with Army against IHs Heroes with Army I think it is not so fair!

Thank you for the feedback!

Greetings!

[Adrigabbro]

Now you see Ram Scouts/Cavalry are not Hero wit the same Logic we do not need Imrahil since we have 3 Elite Battalions of Knights of Dol Amroth or similar is the Case with Mordor Riders!

What? I don't understand how it is "the same logic". On the one hand there are three dwarven SUBfactions that need to be balanced : on the other hand you're talking about an entire faction. I mean why would having three battalions of knights of Dol Amroth deny the right to have Imrahil? Nothing in common, sorry but that's non sense. 

About your other arguments, I'll just stick to "wait and see" and "personal taste". Guess you can't see my ponit and I can't see yours. ^^


EDIT: To make things clear, I'm not a hater of the idea of one more hero. If you manage to give the team an interesting idea, I'll be as glad as you. I'm just satisfied as it is now (or rather as it's gonna be in 4.2) and I haven't found a cool idea yet.

[ThorinIIoakenshield]

I will say it again in this forum,iron hills can get a narin which is a captain of dain's elite units.he wil have captain iron hills armour http://media.moddb.com/cache/images/members/1/762/761504/thumb_620x2000/Iron_Hills_Captain_Armor.png and his abilities wil be leadership L1,L4  he summons 2 movie design elite troops permanent...L6 ram charge an L10 he summons a battalion of elite movie design with a dwarven chariot as shown in extended scenes

[LordDainIronfoot]

Now you see Ram Scouts/Cavalry are not Hero wit the same Logic we do not need Imrahil since we have 3 Elite Battalions of Knights of Dol Amroth or similar is the Case with Mordor Riders!

What? I don't understand how it is "the same logic". On the one hand there are three dwarven SUBfactions that need to be balanced : on the other hand you're talking about an entire faction. I mean why would having three battalions of knights of Dol Amroth deny the right to have Imrahil? Nothing in common, sorry but that's non sense. 

About your other arguments, I'll just stick to "wait and see" and "personal taste". Guess you can't see my ponit and I can't see yours. ^^


EDIT: To make things clear, I'm not a hater of the idea of one more hero. If you manage to give the team an interesting idea, I'll be as glad as you. I'm just satisfied as it is now (or rather as it's gonna be in 4.2) and I haven't found a cool idea yet.

Caling a nonsense something you can't understand is rude at the least! But that aside!What I mean is tha you say we have 3 Cavalry Units so we do not need a Hero,and I gave example how we have 3 Knights of Dol Amroth Cavalry and yet we have a Hero ! :)Same can be said about Imladris and Glorfindel with his Riders! now you get what I mean mate!?  

Isengard can be a prime example how when a faction lack Heroes we can get inspiration fro mthe Movie Non Canon Heroes or some less important Heroes or People from the Book to fill the gap that is left! I love Isengard ,so my point is that when we have good Lore Base and yet we lack main and famous Heroes we can use that Base and build on it!

I guess it will all depend on the strenght of the ram Riders but as I said i think IHs needs one more Hero!

It is fine if you do not like the Narin idea,it is your right and opinion about that !
But as I have said Narin is based on a Dwarf from Iron Hills in the Book so   I think he is much more lore friendly than Murin and Drar even and he can have a place in Edain!

I will say it again in this forum,iron hills can get a narin which is a captain of dain's elite units.he wil have captain iron hills armour http://media.moddb.com/cache/images/members/1/762/761504/thumb_620x2000/Iron_Hills_Captain_Armor.png and his abilities wil be leadership L1,L4  he summons 2 movie design elite troops permanent...L6 ram charge an L10 he summons a battalion of elite movie design with a dwarven chariot as shown in extended scenes

Hte idea is interesting but let's leave it aside,,we all have left behind the Movie Models ideas after long disucssions and fights aroun MU about them!So do not get me wrong I am one of the bigest fan of those Models,BUT let's not turn this Thread into another Edain Models VS Movie Models pointless fight!!That is behind us and lets not start again with that !

Sorry if I sound rude! Greetings to all!

[ThorinIIoakenshield]

Thanks dain,I think that it is very selfish of the ET to make a special map ability so that tauriel is perminant although they were against it,though the ET does not like the movie design they show some great respect to their fans not to even try something to show their thanks to our support...just telling us that THEY don't like it and will not implement it in the mod is some respect don't you think!I think it is ridiculous for us to support them the way we do if they are not even willing to please the community with a compromise to implement thise movie design.dwarves are tough and fierce not cute and cuddly as they are now...Your name is dain ironfoot you should now that we don't stand back from a fight and that if you at first don't succeed...try again all I am trying to say is that we support the edain team a lot,we help them fight mods that stole their ideas but they won't even do something for their community as little as to add a movie design to show their greatfullness towards their fans

[LordDainIronfoot]

Well I see your point mate! There was time in the past that I felt quite angry with the Team and disapointed too! And While you do have a point let's not forget that till Yeasterday they said they will not use Ram Riders too and now we have those Awesome Scout Units,so my point is that even at one point in time something is not possible it doesnt mean in future it will be so too! Lets jsut have hope and belive into the Team which gave this awesome exprience of the Tolkien Universe trough such Old and Not so well done Game which they turned inot masterpiece with their own hands!

They use Ered Mithrin idea which was primary Fan based idea,same goes for ram Scout/Cavalry it was another fan based idea and many other things! So yes,we may not alwasy get what we want when we want,but we never know when we can be pleasently surprised and we do not know what the future holds! Lets belive in the Team and their decision and show respect to all the hord work they ahve done for free for us ordinary fans with no Modding Skills!

Do not get me worng I udnerstand your feelings but just do not let them cloud your judgment and be objective! And lets give our best into creating a worthy of Edain Iron Hills Hero which the Team can't deny but use it!

Continue to give your support and will be rwarded may be nor right here and right now but all good in time!

I hope you understand me correctly!

Best reagards mate ahnd yes "We never flee from a fight!..." that's why I will cotninue with my support towards the Team and my favourite Faction the Iron HIlls!

[Melkor Bauglir]

Hmm, all in all I have to agree with Adrigabbro.
I would probably liked your idea more, LordDainIronfoot, if the "missing" hero wasn't a scout, but a full fleded out hero! This is actually a crucial point: IH don't really loose combat power by having one less hero!
It is indeed a little unfortunate, that IH is both the dwarven faction which has no outpost hero AND no scout, decreasing their numbers of heroes quite a bit. (If it wasn't for this annoying lore we should have probably switched either Ered Mithrin or the RRs. I blame the government! ) I personally think that they do have a more than sufficiant substitution for this lack of heroes, not only by having cavalry, but also a global nuclear strike () and a berserker unit -which is already kind of a mini-hero.

Greetings
Melkor Bauglir

[Gnomi]

think that it is very selfish of the ET to make a special map ability so that tauriel is perminant although they were against it

Actually i's not selfish at all. Even though most people agreed that a summon is the better possibility, there are many fans who'ld like to play Tauriel as a permanent hero.
Therefore this is a solution to fulfill everybody's wishes:
Normally Tauriel is a summon, but on one (!) map she's permanent. So people who really like to play her permanently can play her forever.

I think it is ridiculous for us to support them the way we do if they are not even willing to please the community with a compromise to implement thise movie design.

We are doing compromises again and again. Saying that we don't integrate movie material is nonsense - there is only a handful of designs we haven't used in the mod yet. I think the ratio should be higher than 10:1 if you compare used movie designs to unused movie designs.
Additionally it's always easy for you to "want" something - you don't have to do it. Everything we do requires work and isn't just made within seconds. And as this is a hobby of us, the most important thing is to have fun and not to be forced to do things all the time.

Your name is dain ironfoot you should now that we don't stand back from a fight and that if you at first don't succeed

Yes, but it's not always good to never change your point of view. Even dwarves changed their point of view when they noticed that there are reasons for it - Dain stopped fighting the elves, because he had to fight against the orcs, Gimli became friends with Legolas and said that Galadriel is the fairest of all beings. Being a dwarf doesn't mean that you can't agree with people who have a different opinion or change your own!

[ThorinIIoakenshield]

I know there are a lot of fans that desire the iron hills armour probably more so then desired tauriel as permanent yet you dit not help them.my point is fans does not matter to you one of the ET members said that they dont care if they have 10 fans or 50 000 they just want to have fun

[ThorinsNemesis]

^^I also like really much the Iron Hills movie armor. And yes, I would love to see them, and Smaug's movie design implement in the mod.
However, I agree with Gnomi - they have included almost all movie designs; and I am most happy to see that we will be able to play with Tauriel as permanent hero in the mod in a way  .  I am grateful for all the work the Team has done, but I understand that this is a hobby for them, so I don't demand anything; I'm fine with some movie designs not being in the mod, this doesn't change that this is an amazing mod.
So personally I will keep supporting Edain, as it's really one of the greatest mods for this game, and the lack of movie Iron Hills dwarves won't change this